# The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097 "2020-12-27T11:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/516 "2020-12-30T22:25:37Z")
time to invest in things !! ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2020, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/533 "2020-12-30T23:20:24Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The ACL system for structures needs to be a lot more granular, yes… but remember, CCP doesn’t actually _use_ it, because they don’t run any large nullsec alliances. So they don’t really know what’s needed. So nothing will change until Hilmar has to do it. Sad. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Sure! Short form, a ‘block’ usually refers to a physical object, or an obstacle, like something blocking the path. Obviously, the obstacle usage comes from the physical object, as an obstruction stands in the way like a block of stone. > > A ‘bloc’ is a socio-political group, like NATO, the Warsaw Pact, the G7, etc, that operates in synch and cohesively, as if they were a single entity. Do you think the concept of a “Bloc” should be accommodated with an in game mechanic, like an alliance of alliances? > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > Now it seems like they are trying to make us do specific things. Every time I hear the words “conflict driver” I want to scream. Because it means CCP hasn’t learned anything from almost 2 decades of EVE. Have to agree there. The piraña of EVE got really good working together and not eating each other. > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > That lesson is simple. _ **You can’t make us do anything.** _ We don’t fight over isk or moons or space, those are called excuses, we fight because “screw those other MFs , I’m down for my people”. Putting our isk in some MWD-killing space bubble in every system does jack for us. ’ If MWD kitey crap wasn’t locked out of the ESS, that’s all the bank robbers would fly, same as entosis trollceptors. Would people still complain if both AB and MWD could not be activated in an ESS? > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > Changing the rocks around doesn’t do anything either. OTEC and the TTT should have taught everyone that people in this video game don’t fight over anything they can just buy from someone. Blackout and the failure to increase participation in low sec after YEARS of adding rewards to low sec should have taught CCP that no amount of risk makes _loss averse_ (“risk averse” is a stupid saying btw) players suddenly become people who shrug off loss. DBSing space just means no one uses space, period. On my first account I had to build combat probes as part of a mission. I flew through all kinds of space in a mining barge asking in local where I could find strontium. Null, low, completely oblivious to the fact I could have been caught and killed. Frustrated at finding no strontium, I flew back to Hek and asked in local where to buy strontium and the response back was to just mine veldspar, sell it for ISK and then buy the strontium in Jita. Turned the hardest mission I ever saw into the easiest. With all roads pointing to Jita, no wonder there is such a lax attitude to taking what is needed by force when it costs as much, if not more in the long run to acquire militarily. Really, if its worth taking, its worth someone else taking it from you, which negates having it in the first place if all that time is spent fighting. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > So you are actually mad that people in Hecates don’t commit to an unfavorable fight against your Hawk? This is the typical problem with PvP, nobody wants to get into the right ship for the job, everyone dog piles into DPS trucks and then finger point at each other when nobody gets tackle. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > If you create a place where not being in a sub 2s ship uncloaked means certain death, you will force people to fly those ships exclusively. Yep, that is it in a nutshell. The groups that flew particular ships out of ‘principal’ got tired of having their asses handed to them long ago. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > You can be neutral or blue to one clade but hostile to another, but unless you read the description of the ships you face there’s no way to find out which is which. Plus, the standings list does not differentiate between clades either. Considering how Triglavians react differently on standings ( magic CCP AI testing zone ) it does seem to be a oversight that the three flavours do not have their own standings markers. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > Until PA ask why they loose a shitons of player and some dev “dismiss” (polite word to said they have choice to dismiss and win a few more money or get fired and get nothing). Its probably part of the deal that PA is restricted from that level of oversight. Though, maybe it is not and that is why some of these changes seem so much like mud on the wall. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > But the variety of benefits is lacking, and people in Povchen get bored… which eventually means previously committed population will abandon the region, if CCP doesn’t react pretty soon. I hope so, though not out of malice for Povchen, more to get CCP to rely less on content sourced by hoping people shoot at each other. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > Why should Trig Shits have it better than Edencom, which has been an abandoned bastard child since day one? Oh, the EDENCOM ships are so garbage its not funny. Triglavian ships have displaced the machariel from incursions, despite Triglavian ships being the most flimsy shield tank there is, purely because Triglavian ships spew out DPS faster than the federal reserve creates debt. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > There is no ice in Povchen, also I haven’t seen people camping entrances for ages (actually never seen like in lowsec). Povchen is more or less empty. No ice? No camping? Nobody there? I am tempted to visit! > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > hacking simplifications Removal of the old system where you had to click stuff as it spewed into space was terrible. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Thera Nope, get rid of it or make it a 0.5 security classification. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > the current event / filaments. Get rid of them too, they’re just used to avoid PvP, both to enter a region and to leave once trapped trying to steal off with loot. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The thing you’re complaining about _does not do what you think it does_. It doesn’t give us the ability to manage large groups, things like jabber, our own forums, discord, mumble, etc all do that. The problem is that Eve does not provide those things as part of the game anymore, so its a barrier to entry for anyone who doesn’t have some IT guy and a wad of cash to spend on hosting. > [@Tudor\_Toralen](#): > > 500 PLEX was about 200 mil ISK But a battleship cost 50 million back then too, right? > [@Tudor\_Toralen](#): > > Do I have to remind you that printing ISK out of nothing from NPC bounties is one of the major , if not the major factor that leads to ISK inflation ? Where does mission running ISK come from then? The problem with NPC bounties was when the passive moon ore was removed and super pilots realised they could self fun their SRP habit in a matter of hours. > [@Tudor\_Toralen](#): > > Keep in mind that they are also people like you and me and people sometimes make mistakes. It would be easier to accept this if some of the fails that have been made were not as obvious as the WH&S videos where someone cuts a branch from a tree and it knocks them off the ladder they are standing on. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > All this people totally forget player could develop external tool, or use external tool. And all they’re dream of nerf will just make actual powerblock stronger and totally delete all medium size group. If the standings system was removed and everyone was neutral, it would kill NPSI, NBSI and NRDS all in one go. Might increase the amount of PvP enormously though. > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Low risk space making more money then Null Sec is ridiculous. PERIOD. Null makes plenty of money if you do it right. According to the MER, even Delve with a war going on was making a fair amount of income. Low Security space incursions are the real crime, they drop shadow BPC’s that don’t appear anywhere else. > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > And the only nerf to incursions was not giving pay out for alts sitting in front of the gate. Does not affect industrialised hs incursion running groups at all. There are half the number of incursions than they were. If taking half your ISK isn’t a nerf, I have a ISK doubling opportunity for you. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > Farm. if you listen WH activation song go in safety and reship to pvpv ship. So true, I had a corp mate who used to turn the volume up on his WH watching computer, logged off of Eve and went off to do other things. Someone else in the house sat down and when a message ‘dinged’ the were not at all happy at how loud it was. > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > ganking some poor newbie in his heron I saw a guy enter the WH in a venture with a scan probe launcher. Only a few hours old, must have been doing career missions. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Why do you think corps require full scope access from members, when they in fact only need name and corp to manage ACL, standing and out of game access rights? Spies. Want to know if “Bad Bob McStab” is a red alt? See how many 0 ISK trades they have with people. Are their SP showing low growth? Alt. Do they always sit about in an exploration ship, never on comms and don’t join fleets? Alt. > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > What are you even talking about, null sec has local, poch does not its more comparable to wormholes. Pochven has no local? How do people know its empty then? > [@Haplo\_Shannow](#): > > CCP can just increase the sinks all around EVE, as simple as that. They did and now people think the market is dead because of it. > [@Arrendis](#): > > That’s it. Without those tools, we’d wind up locking other things down a bit more, and we’d return to more restrictive policies, but it wouldn’t impact our normal operations. Which I think is a very bad direction to go, as it creates single points of failure. > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > Goons are the best lead and organised Alliance in the game, if they can deal with it doesn’t mean everyone else can - just think of Co² CO2 would not have happened if CCP did not drag their feet with corporation management QOL improvements. Withdrawl limits, control of structures via the political system. CO2 would still be around and the judge would still just be some guy on the CSM. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > Which would make it easier to ban you all for abusing macros and scripts. Win win. What, so visiting dotlan would be bannable? > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > want to see Goons and other big groups without counterintelligence. Perfect intel is un-EvE, and according to your own words, not required for organization. So again, let’s do it, convince CCP, send Brisc to Hilmar Your argument is there should be no dotlan, no zkill, no eve-market and all the fuzzworks tools get pulled. Really? > [@Zuccini\_Vaselini](#): > > lol you’re the worst troll i’ve seen in a good while > could at least put some effort in Have you seen Scoots Choo lately? > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > while CCP allows him to act like a wannbe thug online. That would mean banning CODE as well. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > You could remove standing This would be the most impactful and if not done, reduces the impact of all other items listed. > [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > Make alliance limit to 500 character Already stated this will just spawn 100 GSF alliances. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > So, again, you mentioned using 3rd party tools to get around ccp restrictions. You’re getting flagged for spam at this point, its just silly. ---
**Author:** ![Breyghun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/breyghun/32/248844_2.png) [@Breyghun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Breyghun)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/538 "2020-12-31T00:56:19Z")
Hey Hux I’ve been playing since the beginning of the game. In the early days it was difficult to make enough ISK to buy a battleship and you couldn’t buy PLEX using real currency to get ahead. Alliances didn’t exist and the server count was growing toward 11,000 players, so even trade was more difficult. They were good times but everything took linger and the Developers seemed confident that this was OK. Fast forward to 2021 and you have one group of players who can afford anything and have little to save for and another that are struggling to grow their assets and are learning that Eve is regarded by many as a multi-year game, not a Triple A title that can be played through in 40-50 hours. This is the challenge the developers have - stay true to building a multi-year game, or move closer to the 40-50 hour experience…how many people out there will commit to several years to master all of the ships? I agree with your position on low attention v no attention. ---
**Author:** ![Jurius\_Doctor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jurius_doctor/32/243354_2.png) [@Jurius\_Doctor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jurius_Doctor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/539 "2020-12-31T01:26:48Z")
Okay, firstly, thank you so much for writing such an incredibly detailed and lengthy response. I really can’t find much wrong with your statements here, but there are some areas of the game mechanics which are net-new since your departure which have added some flavour and interesting content to the game (Upwell corporation and the various structures). As POS’ are being phased out of the game, they are largely used as safes for Titans needing to provide a bridge midpoint, now. All in all, 10/10, great post. ---
**Author:** ![Jurius\_Doctor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jurius_doctor/32/243354_2.png) [@Jurius\_Doctor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jurius_Doctor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/540 "2020-12-31T01:30:13Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Fale\_Einn](#): > > > > And you got elected. Holy crap. > > Yes, almost as amazing as the idea that you’re going to teach CCP a lesson by playing their game. This is as asinine as that line from Dane Cook, “Women will stay in shitty relationships for the dumbest of reasons, ‘I can’t just leave guys… You don’t understand… I can’t go… My CDs are in his truck.’” 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Jurius\_Doctor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jurius_doctor/32/243354_2.png) [@Jurius\_Doctor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jurius_Doctor)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/542 "2020-12-31T02:24:27Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That’s what’s needed: remove the obstacles, without creating massive additional amounts of tedium. Because let’s keep in mind, even the largest war EVE’s ever seen, both in terms of active hot-war duration and player count… _hasn’t_ increased destruction, overall: This is the most disappointing metric, in my mind. That falling destruction rates aren’t corrected by a massive war and - purported - hordes of new players and returning players coming to the game. How does the kids’ song go? _“One of these things is not like the others, one of these things is kind of the same.”_ ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/551 "2020-12-31T05:50:41Z")
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**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/552 "2020-12-31T05:50:50Z")
Removed a large number of off topic posts. Keep it civil and on topic. First warning. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/553 "2020-12-31T06:09:14Z")
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**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/554 "2020-12-31T06:12:01Z")
Reminder that the biggest super capital fight in EVE history is taking place **right now**. Primarily due to boredom between the leadership of major nullblocs. Not due to CCP’s changes to the game. I hope that what CCP has planned in the future contributes meaningfully to these kinds of fights, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 6:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/555 "2020-12-31T06:29:24Z")
Can confirm: the M2-XFE fighting has absolutely nothing to do with scarcity or any of the changes CCP has made to the economic picture. Rise’s changes to supercaps and fax reps / diminishing returns have significantly contributed to the destruction, but the Ecosystem changes have made no difference whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/556 "2020-12-31T06:44:30Z")
Is that so? Great. In that case you should advertise this feature more and attract all the people who want to live in no-local space (but not W-space) and who cherish the idea of wandering resources. Coincidentally those are overlapping groups and thus Pochven should fill up with people in no time. After all, there are hundreds of likeminded players here on the forums and reddit and everywhere. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/557 "2020-12-31T07:54:10Z")
Funny enough if you follow the forums there is alliances now coming to poch and advertising as such I think 1 day ago a 300 man alliance just moved in and now you can see them helping their own guys get standings. IMO Poch feels like a wh with tons of high sec, low sec and null statics. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/558 "2020-12-31T10:01:30Z")
Wow, one 300 characters strong alliance. What a start. Well, in that kind of environment you have to be glad about _any_ start. What about these useless Trig Lovers by the way? Stribog Clade, Suddenly Spaceships, Kybernauts? > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > and now you can see them helping their own guys get standings. Is that supposed to be a good thing? That is the least a group like that ought to do if they want to gain people. It’s bare minimum, not something to boast about. ---
**Author:** ![Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fartsniffer_munba/32/248389_2.png) [@Fartsniffer\_Munba](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fartsniffer_Munba)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/559 "2020-12-31T11:10:22Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Ecosystem changes have made no difference whatsoever. I’ve been doing a lot less of everything with “ecosystem changes”. Which includes fighting. Especially in things bigger than cruisers. ---
**Author:** ![Fale\_Einn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fale_einn/32/477432_2.png) [@Fale\_Einn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fale_Einn)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/560 "2020-12-31T11:14:42Z")
He didn’t read what I said and jumped to his own conclusions ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/561 "2020-12-31T12:26:44Z")
Well, we made up for that. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/562 "2020-12-31T14:02:33Z")
Your anger and sarcasm is unjustified, please calm your tits. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/563 "2020-12-31T15:38:06Z")
@Zhalyd_Lyehin is telling straight truth : ) please open your ayes and stop looking at your own tits 🤣 At the moment we are creating %100 times more content and activity in a single system than whole fuckin pochven 🙂 i mean shame on them giggles … which supposed to be our old system sitting at pochven is totall dull and abandoned… Really where is all those kybernauts and trig supporters feeding on CCP created content everday and flipping systems ??? We cant see them so much in their supposed to be new homes ?.. TOP PVP CONTENT in PoCHVEN 🙂 [https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98641311/losses/](https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98641311/losses/) \o/ thank you CCP 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/564 "2020-12-31T16:09:23Z")
> [@Breyghun](#): > > how many people out there will commit to several years to master all of the ships? Nobody, this is the greatest scam in Eve. “Come to eve, you can do anything\*” \*after several years of paying for a subscription. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=24) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=26)