# The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097 "2020-12-27T11:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/615 "2021-01-03T17:52:28Z")
And it’s that arrogance which prevents them from properly receiving / responding to community input, as well as encouraging them to ignore feedback when they receive it, choosing to force changes on the game that NO ONE wants, just because they can, and because we told them not to. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/616 "2021-01-03T17:58:21Z")
It really is amazing how you think I’m capable of preventing CCP from responding to community input and feedback. I may be arrogant, but even I don’t attribute myself that much power. ---
**Author:** ![Siegfried\_Tahl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/siegfried_tahl/32/377209_2.png) [@Siegfried\_Tahl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Siegfried_Tahl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/617 "2021-01-03T17:58:57Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Income being too much built up over years, leaving things too fat. Just dropping to the ‘correct’ level doesn’t deal with that fat. Things stay fat with that. You have to drop below the level, burn that fat off, then once the stockpiles are about right, you can bring things back up to equilibrium again so the stockpile levels stay fairly constant at that point. I think more effective burning fat is made through people playing more and spending more. Not people unsubbing to make an impression that stockpiles are gone. When they’ll come back after scarcity is over, they’ll bring fat back. Self sufficiency is bad, I won’t argue with that. But I hold an opinion that resources should not be scarce. They should all be plenty abundant, but some of them should be unique to drive competition and conflict. That way you can still overproduce and stockpile that resource unique to your region and drive your own profits down, but not the whole the economy. I think of drug gases as a nice example, though I may not know enough about boosters market, I like the idea that there is only a couple constellations all of this or that gas originates from, and anyone from a solo Venture to a corp mining OP can participate. Something along the line, you want to build region specific products, say Gurista supercaps, you have to live in Gurista null or harass people who live there, bend the knee and buy from them. Unique minerals, mission items, salvage, NPC shipyards, etc. Not get a BPC, and build anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/618 "2021-01-03T18:07:59Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I think more effective burning fat is made through people playing more and spending more. Not people unsubbing to make an impression that stockpiles are gone. When they’ll come back after scarcity is over, they’ll bring fat back. I know making IRL comparisons is dumb, but: Losing weight is mostly based on your diet. You can’t out exercise a crappy diet. The same way, you’re not going to fix a leaky faucet blasting isk and resources into EVE by just telling people “go blow up more things”. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/619 "2021-01-03T18:35:29Z")
> [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > Self sufficiency is bad, I won’t argue with that. But I hold an opinion that resources should not be scarce. They should all be plenty abundant, but some of them should be unique to drive competition and conflict. That way you can still overproduce and stockpile that resource unique to your region and drive your own profits down, but not the whole the economy. Ok, so, resources ‘unique to your region’. Sounds great, right? Branch’s unique resource would be controlled by Fraternity. Tenal’s unique resource would be controlled by… Fraternity, and Frat/PanFam renters. Cobalt Edge’s unique resource by Horde… and Frat/PanFam renters. Oasa’s uniqure resource would be controlled by… Fraternity, and FRT/PanFam renters… Perrigen Falls, Malpais, Outer Passage, all the way around to Tenerifis… all the same group. So, you’ve got 1 coalition (PandaFam) with half of the game’s ‘unique resources’. If those resources are something you need in order to effectively wage war on them… well, congrats, your war’s shut down ahead of time. If they’re _not_… then why should anyone care about those resources? How do you prevent players from just _organizing_ into hegemony, the way we have in the past? Technetium’s already been referenced. We formed a cartel with our enemies, and yeah, we ran the whole economy through that one resource. How do you keep the people who _own_ the resources already from making sure nobody new can break in? It’s a great way to cause the massive stagnation nullsec saw 6 years ago, when all wars were proxy wars and tiny little border skirmishes, with the whole map divided evenly between 2 blocs. > [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > I like the idea that there is only a couple constellations all of this or that gas originates from, and anyone from a solo Venture to a corp mining OP can participate. You mean anyone from a solo venture to a corp mining op can run into gate camps run by the locals who’ve driven out anyone they don’t like? > [@Siegfried\_Tahl](#): > > Something along the line, you want to build region specific products, say Gurista supercaps, you have to live in Gurista null or harass people who live there, bend the knee and buy from them. Again, they tried it. The original Blood Raider Engineering Complexes, the only way you get BPCs for Blood Raider faction capitals, originally only spawned in Blood Raider space. And then those of us who lived there worked out how to reliably run those complexes, and as soon as CCP realized we were going to be the sole owners of Blood Raider Titans, POOF! They made them start spawning _all over null_. Otherwise… only one group in the game would have Moloks. And we’d have a LOT of them. Which, because faction titans are better than regular ones, would have meant even _more_ of an imbalance of power. What you’re saying seems like it should work, _in principle_. In practice? We’ve already seen it break down, _hard_… repeatedly. The big problem missing from any attempt at a realistic ‘regional’ allocation of resources… is there’s no way to innovate around the shortfall. You can’t say ‘ok, so, we’ve got no bronze, what if we maybe figure out how to make iron actually be hard enough to use?’ Without innovation… the rest of it’s just shadow-boxing. If we could innovate, you might see players who don’t have access to unique resources finding other ways to do things… or even the same ways CCP’s in-game story did: use more common resources to get the job done, even if it takes more manpower. You know, like the Minmatar using lower-tech solutions to solve the problems of waging a war of rebellion against the Amarr Empire, and just throwing _more_ of those lower-tech solutions at the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/620 "2021-01-03T18:59:49Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > And it’s that arrogance which prevents them from properly receiving / responding to community input There is rules in any gaming company to be careful of responding to player feedback because 98% of the time it can be used against the companies, so usually only 100% safe comment’s will be answered. But that is not the point, an answer is not required and most of the time someone from ccp will read it anyways so the message has usually been delivered. Even some small thought can sit dormant in their minds for years and something small could trigger it at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/621 "2021-01-03T19:14:38Z")
> [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > But that is not the point, an answer is not required and most of the time someone from ccp will read it anyways so the message has usually been delivered. Coulda fooled me. The average / new playerbase screamed “omfg no” besides the gank trolls, the CSM screamed “OMFG NO! PLEASE!” Null Blocs said “meh, we really don’t care”. Weird, seems like they listened to the answer they wanted to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/622 "2021-01-03T19:45:34Z")
They have already used 2 things I’ve mentioned many years ago 😛 so I know for sure they read our stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Yan\_Cornellian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yan_cornellian/32/260304_2.png) [@Yan\_Cornellian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yan_Cornellian)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/625 "2021-01-03T23:28:27Z")
There is no scarcity if you are one of the big 0.0 blocs they have trillions upon trillions of isk, you could take all resources away from the game and they would still have a horrendous excess of cash to manipulate whatever they want. I think ccp should own that and move on. I don’t care about the big 0.0 blocs, they don’t care about me and my pissant little eve game, and frankly ccp don’t know what to do about either of those scenarios, they feel they have to keep bullshitting about “great content” and bringing balance 🙄. The game was never balanced, never built to be balanced so please just move on… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/626 "2021-01-04T00:30:39Z")
> [@Yan\_Cornellian](#): > > There is no scarcity if you are one of the big 0.0 blocs they have trillions upon trillions of isk Hi, I’m an Alliance Director for Goonswarm. You have no idea. Yes, scarcity has impacted _all_ of the null blocs. It’s all well and good for us to have trillions of ISK in our line members’ wallets, but that doesn’t make it any easier to move massive stashes of minerals from highsec in to build more crap, especially not in an accelerated timeframe. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/627 "2021-01-04T05:03:11Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Hi, I’m an Alliance Director for Goonswarm. You have no idea. Yes, scarcity has impacted _all_ of the null blocs. “Before we flew blobs worth trillions just to lag the server, now we… fly blobs worth trillions just to lag the server. Scarcity is hard for the rich!” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/628 "2021-01-04T05:38:28Z")
You really love putting words in peoples’ mouths, don’t you? Here’s an example of how scarcity has impacted the null blocs: Colossal Ore Deposits, the largest ore anomalies in nullsec, now have enough minerals in them to build exactly 0 battleships. That’s right. 0. You can’t get the minerals to build a single battleship out of the entire anomaly. The fact that we didn’t _waste_ the abundance when it was there, and have the ability to find work-arounds doesn’t mean we’re not impacted. The very fact that we have to find those work-arounds means we are. But you feel free to keep arguing against things nobody’s said. It really makes you look like an honest commenter, discussing the matter in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/629 "2021-01-04T05:54:49Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That’s right. 0. You can’t get the minerals to build a single battleship out of the entire anomaly. Let’s not be misleading. You can’t get a perfect distribution of all ores to build a battleship. You can however get more than enough value in ore to trade for the missing minerals to build a battleship and have a surplus of the ore you do get for future battleships. Under your posting enough morphite to mine for 24h wouldn’t have value because it’s not enough to build anything on its own. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/630 "2021-01-04T05:58:09Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > The fact that we didn’t _waste_ the abundance when it was there, and have the ability to find work-arounds doesn’t mean we’re not impacted. “We’re impacted, just not in any meaningful way that limits our ability to abuse the servers.” ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/631 "2021-01-04T06:02:45Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > just not in any meaningful way that limits our ability to abuse the servers.” You… do get that Titans don’t load the servers significantly more than frigates right? Both are a single entity as far as the server cares. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/632 "2021-01-04T06:04:38Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > You… do get that Titans don’t load the servers significantly more than frigates right? Both are a single entity as far as the server cares. “Guys the enemy has 6k ships on the scene waiting for us to warp in, system is already starting to lag… Let’s warp in 7k more and try to crash it!” After: “It’s so unfair, we warped in to crash the system, but it resulted in losses for us! Boooo!” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/633 "2021-01-04T06:12:22Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > “Guys the enemy has 6k ships on the scene waiting for us to warp in, system is already starting to lag… Let’s warp in 7k more and try to crash it!” A) Jump in, not warp in. Had they taken the gates, they’d probably have been ok. B) So your position is that scarcity can only be considered to have an impact if… people don’t have ships at all? I mean, that’s 1 ship per character. If everyone could only get rookie corvettes, that’s _still_ 1 ship per character. What you’re screaming about there isn’t _wealth_, it’s _manpower_, and frankly, we’d be perfectly happy _not_ to have 150,000 characters invading us, thanks. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Let’s not be misleading. > You can’t get a perfect distribution of all ores to build a battleship. > You can however get more than enough value in ore to trade for the missing minerals to build a battleship and have a surplus of the ore you do get for future battleships. Prior to scarcity, you could get the minerals you needed. Now you cannot. Now you _have_ to ship them in, when before, you did not. Does this, or does this not, count as ‘having an impact’? Because more work, more time, more ISK changing hands, having to completely redo the supply chain, that all seems like it’s ‘an impact’, no? Battleship prices doubling because of the mineral changes, even as ratting _was already dropping off_ before the bounty changes, that’s not an impact, either? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/634 "2021-01-04T06:15:33Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Does this, or does this not, count as ‘having an impact’? Oh sure, it’s an impact. But saying ‘0 Battleships’ makes it sound like there isn’t even a Battleships value of minerals in the Anom. Rather than it just not having a perfect distribution and you having to set up a two way supply chain to sell excess of one and get shortage of the other. And it’s not like many on the forums show a lot of smarts in working these things out for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/635 "2021-01-04T06:17:05Z")
Saying 0 battleships is saying exactly how many battleships you can build with what you can get out of anomalies that used to supply the minerals needed for a few dozen. At the same time, didn’t I say we had to find work-arounds? How is that misleading? Am I responsible for their stupidity? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/636 "2021-01-04T06:17:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Am I responsible for their stupidity? No, but you are responsible for deliberately misleading the stupid when you do so. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=29)