# The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097 "2020-12-27T11:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/637 "2021-01-04T06:19:29Z")
I’m not misleading them. If they choose to read into my words, and make assumptions, that’s on them. And you know I’m an enough of an arrogant ass to mock them for it when they do. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/638 "2021-01-04T06:21:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And you know I’m an enough of an arrogant ass to mock them for it when they do. I also know that you are enough of an ass to call someone else out for this sort of misleading statement as well :), if it suited your slant on something. However, yes, on the topic of this thread, it has totally had an impact on null groups, I’m in total agreement there, it might be a manageable impact, but it’s a manageable impact on everyone after all. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_zakarygobcev/32/403783_2.png) [@Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commander_Zakarygobcev)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/639 "2021-01-04T07:47:53Z")
As someone who has farmed for his PvP activity, before it was just “ok I’m going to log in and run a few sites to pay for a new ship” to “■■■■ this I have to make 10j in my 400m ship into a bottleneck system with 100 kills per minute to get a system with decent ratting rates”. As soon as the war is over I’m out for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/640 "2021-01-04T08:22:42Z")
> [@Commander\_Zakarygobcev](#): > > As soon as the war is over I’m out for a while. You know you can still log in and run a few sites, it’s just a few more sites than before. Moving is not required, it’s just an option. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/641 "2021-01-04T09:16:35Z")
“a few more” =\> a lot more in reality. DBS + ESS make it very bad. If CCP have sanctuarise 95% minimum rate for farmer, no one will have complain, and hunter will have a shitons of money in ESS to finance roam… But CCP nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf … As i have already explain , if they have remove ALL NERF before blackout and introduce juste an ESS system/DBS you will have see a game in healthy state by the up of roam and dangerosity of roam (and keep filament). But it’s like CCP have planified 2-3 year in advance a long seri of nerf to reduce economy and launch all in raw without study impact of alla change before the last arrive live … ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/642 "2021-01-04T09:47:34Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > So your position is that scarcity can only be considered to have an impact if… people don’t have ships at all? Scarcity only has an impact if it affects stockpiles of resources already hoarded, CCP refuses to do this because you nullbabies whine and cry every day about how you’ve earned the right to do whatever you please by sitting there engaging in lazy half assed attempts at creating “content” that mostly just serve to show how incompetant your leadership, and CCP, both are, for the last 15+ years. You kids don’t know what risk is anymore, because it doesn’t exist in the game for you, yet you go on and on about how important it is for n00bs to face risks to their income. It’s this sad arrogance, this hubris in thinking you’re the pinnacle of the system, above all things, that has caused you to choke the game, poison the community, and strip the sandbox bare. No wonder the big alliances rent so much territory to bots XD BTW let’s talk about that amazing content you created with this choice to glitch the system, second biggest battle ever! It made the players involved miserable, gave a poor impression of the game to the public (because why advertise huge battles if they’re plagued with glitches?), and made players not involved say “oh that happened? I really don’t care…” Congrats on some amazing content! ![sr6fh](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/a/3a0ed45db0dce47a4babd6b54c9ba141d4c4a456.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_zakarygobcev/32/403783_2.png) [@Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commander_Zakarygobcev)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/643 "2021-01-04T09:56:55Z")
Im not gonna spend twice as much time in anoms and try to kill people trying to ninja 50% of the 50% I’ve previously won on the ESS. ■■■■ this I have more furfilling games to play. I don’t have 10 hours to play a day. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/644 "2021-01-04T11:02:44Z")
> [@Dictateur\_Imperator](#): > > DBS + ESS make it very bad. ESS only has an impact if someone comes by to steal it, otherwise it pays out to you after a few hours anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/645 "2021-01-04T11:25:12Z")
And people come. So you waste time to defend. YOu can’t conenct and just make 1 or 2 anom and disconect , you need to play 2 hour is worst case. If you can’t understand it hurt people and make economy unviable and not healthy, congrats you are ready to be recruit by CCP actual team. Imagine this change : 95% mini sanctuarised for farmer. All more go to ESS (so all DBS fruit go to ESS) , more over add a thing who make nearest you are from 0.0 NPC or LS and you win more DBS increase . Ok now you have a nice system, beacause if you farm under umbrella over farmed system you win 95% and mayeb a little more … (make minimum DBS 110% , so 15 % in ESS to attrac roammer). If you farm from all, bnetter reward if you defend ! SO it will create a risk/reward for farmer … and HUNTER. Do you prefer 15% of a well farmed system with possible heavy defense ? Or 60% in a less farmed system ? ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_zakarygobcev/32/403783_2.png) [@Commander\_Zakarygobcev](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commander_Zakarygobcev)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 11:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/646 "2021-01-04T11:35:44Z")
People will always stockpile… You are kinda out of touch my friend I don’t think you realize the insanity of what you’re saying. ![9nxruczry1961](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/7/67905136d3e209f7904bd7a0e73d7d98eaa950b9.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![littlertree](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/littlertree/32/297975_2.png) [@littlertree](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/littlertree)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/647 "2021-01-04T11:59:45Z")
![unnamed (1)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/8/18fbf4a0920ee2ed55dc3ca88a049d7742f8802f.jpeg) i mean ccp is too hard to u made the skins a color palet and isteand of buy 150-400 plex recolor u just sell uss the color for the same price and we can paint ur ship and the way they want? i am dam sure alot of titan pilots will like to pain they raganarok and erebus gold or pink for VERY VERY male reasons ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/648 "2021-01-04T13:47:51Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > Scarcity only has an impact if it affects stockpiles of resources already hoarded And the stockpiles of resources held by active players _have_ been drawn down. Not completely, but they _have_ been drawn down. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > It’s this sad arrogance, this hubris in thinking you’re the pinnacle of the system, above all things, that has caused you to choke the game, poison the community, and strip the sandbox bare. We’re not ‘above’ anyone. Yes, a fair number of people believe nullsec and titans is ‘endgame’ content, but that’s because that’s _their_ endgame content. My arrogance has nothing to do with being in nullsec. It has to do with having to deal with morons. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > No wonder the big alliances rent so much territory to bots XD We don’t. In fact, we’d love to see CCP find some way to eliminate renting altogether. Renting, like passive moon-mining, is money you get for doing nothing, and nobody in EVE should get money for nothing (or their chicks for free). > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > BTW let’s talk about that amazing content you created with this choice to glitch the system, second biggest battle ever! It made the players involved miserable, gave a poor impression of the game to the public (because why advertise huge battles if they’re plagued with glitches?), and made players not involved say “oh that happened? I really don’t care…” Congrats on some amazing content! Yes, we _chose_ to glitch the system by getting there first, with enough force to actually fight the fleet our enemies were trying to bring in. You wanna get pissed off at the guys who said ‘ok, now we want to crash the node’, you go right ahead. Wasn’t us. 😛 _We_ were there to defend the keepstar, and had to account for not only the large supercapital fleet already logged off on-grid, but also the 6000 people they were going to bring in for the fight. Tell me, how would _you_ have done that? ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/656 "2021-01-04T19:06:03Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Tell me, how would _you_ have done that? I’d spread resources across hundreds of systems at the same time while sending just enough ships to confront their blob to make them think we’re trying, we’d contest hundreds of their structures and pop hundreds of their renters while they were defending a single structure that doesn’t really matter in the long run, it’ll just be replaced. Why? Because I have zero interest in battles with 8 second command delays that only serve to make entitled vets get erections over how fancy their cap fleet is. If the time came that they realized what we were doing, **then** we’d mass warp Corvettes/Frigs and drop thousands of drones onto the defending system and lag it to death so that they couldn’t send reinforcements elsewhere. Why cheat and glitch unless you make it worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/657 "2021-01-04T19:34:49Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > I’d spread resources across hundreds of systems at the same time while sending just enough ships to confront their blob to make them think we’re trying, we’d contest hundreds of their structures and pop hundreds of their renters while they were defending a single structure that doesn’t really matter in the long run, it’ll just be replaced. Well, except they _weren’t_ defending a single structure. They were _attacking_ a single structure, which they had to attack, because a large chunk of their supercapital fleet has been trapped there, logged off in bubbles, for _days_. We _were_ defending a single structure… but it wasn’t about the structure. It was about those trapped supercapitals. Because that’s the best and quickest way to win this war: kill their supercapitals. And we’re pretty sure we would’ve been able to do quite a lot of that, if they’d logged in the group below the keepstar. As for spreading resources across hundreds of systems… at the same time that they were having their ‘what do you mean jumping in 6k more people was a mistake?’ moment, we had Initiative and Bastion reinforcing dozens of systems and structures all across their home regions, yes. And, for the record, ‘just enough ships to confront their blob’… is pretty much what we _had_ there when they tried to jump in. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > Why cheat and glitch unless you make it worth it? Absolutely nobody on the defending side was trying to cheat, or wanted the system to glitch out. We wanted that fight. While there have been recordings of attacking alliance leadership talking about trying to crash the node, I don’t for one moment believe that any of the people _actually_ in charge of that coalition’s attack strategy wanted that, either. Not one. Why go to all that effort for nothing? And if you’ve heard Vily—the guy who gave the other to jump—on the streams after the fight, the guy was just broken. He definitely wanted a fight there, not a server glitch. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/658 "2021-01-04T19:46:57Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > We wanted that fight. Um… lol. If anyone in the leadership of the two blobs actually wanted a real fight, as soon as the TiDi got unmanageable, they’d have begun negotiations to call a cease fire just long enough for the server to stop smoking. “They” meant “you” in my case, “Me” meant your “enemy”. So if I had been in charge of the attackers, we’d have trapped your blob and flowed around it, invading deep into the heart of your territory with no intention other than leaving behind dead renters, dead structures, and cloaky campers to continue hunting your renters after the initial fights are concluded and the rent bots log back in. If i’d been in charge of YOUR fleet, we’d be on the attack, no on the defensive, so it’s hard to say what i’d have done if asked to boss around 6k defenders as 7k attackers warp in and glitch the system to death, i’d probably do what you did and take advantage of their attempt to cheat by popping ships that load in unfitted due to lag, etc, then take up the incident with CCP through the nullbloc’s CSMs. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/659 "2021-01-04T20:06:12Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > So if I had been in charge of the attackers, we’d have trapped your blob and flowed around it, invading deep into the heart of your territory with no intention other than leaving behind dead renters, dead structures, and cloaky campers to continue hunting your renters after the initial fights are concluded and the rent bots log back in. Well, we don’t _have_ renters, so good luck with that—in fact, we oppose renting on the basis that we feel rental empires and free money for not doing work are bad for the game, and there are already cloaky campers in literally every system we have. There have been for years. So what? As for ‘invading deep into the heart of your territory’… our enemies are literally staging 1 jump from our staging system. This fight was 4 jumps behind their lines. They have invaded as deeply into the heart of our territory as it is possible to invade, and by the way, we still had another 1800 people in staging (and jumping _out_ was no problem at all). And no, nobody on either side was going to call a ceasefire. Their strategy hinges on having more numbers than we do. And we… _don’t trust a word that comes out of their lying mouths_. Their leadership has time and time again been shown to be lying about what they’re doing, why they started the war, etc etc. So you can’t really have that kind of negotiation if there’s no trust there. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > If i’d been in charge of YOUR fleet, we’d be on the attack, no on the defensive, Then you’d lose. What part of ‘150,000 characters’1 don’t you get? We’re outnumbered 3:1. If the numbers were reversed, we’d have burned them out of their homes six months ago. Also, let’s not make any mistake here: both sides wanted a real fight. Neither side wanted a _fair_ one. If there’s a fair fight in EVE, just like any other situation where numbers are only limited by ‘how many can you get?’, _someone screwed up_. * * * 1. This is not exaggeration or hyperbole. They put together a coalition of 103 alliances, consisting of over 150,000 members. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/660 "2021-01-04T20:36:45Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If there’s a fair fight in EVE, just like any other situation where numbers are only limited by ‘how many can you get?’, _someone screwed up_. 150k accounts, not players. So any fight that isn’t glitched to death is too fair? I’m missing the point here, you claim to want good fights, but don’t want fair fights, and will glitch to avoid them? Confused. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/661 "2021-01-04T20:43:40Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > 150k accounts, not players. No. 150k _characters_. Because that’s the information we have access to. I can’t tell how many characters on an account are in the same alliance. 😛 Quick! How many of the characters I have on this account are in Goonswarm? > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > So any fight that isn’t glitched to death is too fair? No, once again, you’re attempting to twist what was said into something else. If, for example, one side has 5 guys… we’ll call them ‘Ratting Group A’, and the other side decides ‘we’re bringing 20 dudes in bombers and 5 dictors’, that’s still a real fight. It’s not a fair fight, but it’s a real fight. Those ratters are gonna try to survive. You’ll also notice, _you_ said ‘good fights’. I didn’t. I didn’t ever use the word ‘good’. We’d like decisive fights where our enemies can react and try their best to kill us, only to fail horribly, resulting in a ridiculously lopsided final total. Failing that, we’ll take a fight where our enemies can react and try their best to kill us, only to fail horribly, resulting in an almost-even final total that we win, like what happened 2 days earlier in the same system, with the same two groups. Which, I should note, is _exactly what they want, too_, only in the other direction. We’re not trying to give them a good time. They don’t want us to have fun in this. **We’re trying to kill one another.** They’ve literally said they want to drive us out of the game. That’s not ‘have a good time’. So screw them and their fun. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/662 "2021-01-04T20:48:06Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > We’d like decisive fights where our enemies can react and try their best to kill us, only to fail horribly, resulting in a ridiculously lopsided final total. Failing that, we’ll take a fight where our enemies can react and try their best to kill us, only to fail horribly, resulting in an almost-even final total that we win, like what happened 2 days earlier in the same system, with the same two groups. Thanks for explaining why entitled vets are so allergic to losses, it hurts their ISK wallet a little, and their epeen a lot. If you don’t want good fights, you don’t actually like PvP, you like victimizing people and trollgrinning. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/663 "2021-01-04T20:50:57Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > Thanks for explaining why entitled vets are so allergic to losses, it hurts their ISK wallet a little, and their epeen a lot. If you don’t want good fights, you don’t actually like PvP, you like victimizing people and trollgrinning. Thanks for once _again_ trying to twist things around and make it into something that isn’t said. It hurts their ISK wallet a little? **We’re willing to throw away trillions in this war**. We _did_ burn over 40t of our own titans during the fight on the armor timer. Allergic to losses? No. We just don’t like wasting mountains of time and effort. Screw epeens. This isn’t about victimizing people, it’s about _winning a war where they invaded us with the stated goal of driving us out of the game_. If I tell you I want to make you quit, are you gonna care all that much about whether or not I’m having fun? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=30)