# The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097 "2020-12-27T11:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Real\_Fake\_Goon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/real_fake_goon/32/236882_2.png) [@Real\_Fake\_Goon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Real_Fake_Goon)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/774 "2021-01-10T04:06:27Z")
CCP kept stimulates players or either force to deal directly with their online plex store vs. constant isk ingame income. Latest nerf was related to the ability of char transfer fee paid by PLEX cancellation. With uocoming scarcity of recources=income folks would be buying more plex directly from CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/775 "2021-01-10T05:43:30Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Nothing is happening, PLEX price is stable. You know that the big PLEX sellers manipulate that price, right? It’ll take a lot more lost trade _volume_ to see a really sharp drop in price. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/776 "2021-01-10T23:56:22Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > CCPs offers have been utter garbage this holiday season. The three months omega + mct might have been worth it if the mct was delivered as a transferable item. > [@Algathas](#): > > This is wrong on so many levels. Why do people AFK cloak? Because the free intel of LOCAL has no counterplay and because you are not truly stealthy you have to rely on psychological warfare to make up for the terrible game mechanic of LOCAL. Oh, its all local’s fault is it? Return it all to the days of blackout? Then why not ask for zkillboard to be shut down, or dotlan to have its API calls blocked, or better yet, how about all the crap in “The Agency” window that shows where the richest ESS is gets removed? > [@Algathas](#): > > The answer was already there… blackout – remove local and then the problem of psychological warfare is solved. Yeah, nobody outside of the super umbrella bothered logging in. Great solution. Not like the MER can tank any worse now can it? > [@Algathas](#): > > Make the Krabs have to work for their intel. That is the problem… not cloaks. Why not just ask CCP to make filaments that transport the nearest ship in a ratting site get teleported to your blops group of bombers, that’s fair, right? > [@Algathas](#): > > NPC null should have blackout because the regions are controlled by the pirate factions (unless some mechanic maybe being positive standing to system owner pirate faction gives you access to their local)A cloaky should appear in local for the tiny bit of time when they decloak through the gate and then be removed from local while they are cloaked unless they say something in local. Whatever, its not like CCTV alts don’t work both ways and Eve has been around long enough that everyone knows a gate activation can be heard from a billion miles away. > [@Algathas](#): > > SOV null should have blackout unless a structure is built and fueled to give the system local. Isn’t that what a TCU is for? Don’t they already cost upkeep on a regular basis? > [@Algathas](#): > > This should be easy enough for gangs to knock out. Jump bridges were introduced as being deployable within weapons range of a citadel. That CCP changed this promised mechanic, which was on parity with a POS, was shameful. Adding another structure to be constantly trolled is not adding meaningful or engaging gameplay. > [@Algathas](#): > > A cloaky should appear in local for the tiny bit of time when they decloak through the gate and then be removed from local while they are cloaked unless they say something in local. Again, back to blackout with fake ‘delayed’ local? Worked so well last time, didn’t it? > [@Algathas](#): > > No other fixes need to be made to cloaks whatsoever. Ratters can bait cloakes, get them when they move systems etc. If a cloaky is in system and it empites guess what they will move since watching nothing is useless. The point is not to watch, its to restrict activity. Makes renters mad, lowers ADM’s. The idea of baiting a cloaky camper is just silly, a procurer mining in a camped system is as obvious as a worm on hook and CCP changed cyno’s so people can’t just roll out a VNI fit with a cyno anymore. > [@Algathas](#): > > As a side note, one side effect of nerfing cynos into the ground so that only recons are useful to light them: What made dropping certain groups of PVErs scary? That a noob ship with a cheap cyno module and a tank of liquid ozone was a near zero cost to fly around and drop people on all day long perhaps? > [@Algathas](#): > > They fit PVE ships with cynos and counter dropped EVERY TIME. By limiting cynos you they lost this ability to defend themselves. Trust me, after a few bad counter drops we learned our lesson on dropping those people. This is exactly a ‘the rich get richer’ problem, where the little groups get adversely impacted by an incumbent power base. Getting counter dropped by the umbrella fleets was always a possibility, though its obvious that CCP decided after over a decade of letting any ship fit a cyno, that blackout wasn’t nearly as scary of those with the super umbrella. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > Local isn’t as big an issue as people make it out to be. > Like, sure it hurts the occasional roaming gangs who get caught in intel channels flying through systems, but those roaming gangs are usually **not** the same people who are cloaky camping a region. Roaming gangs that do not bother to use a scout, right? Any roaming gangs that get caught have only themselves to blame, what with the fabulous selection of filaments they can use to teleport to the nearest triglavian safe zone. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > 1. the sov system is trash Yes. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > ADMs are garbage Yes. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > because there’s no way to attack wealth that just docks up and never risks itself other than psychologically weak krabs. Shoot at the structures they are hiding in perhaps? > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > I play my game solo and I’m not in a player-corp as that is just the way I play my game. A wise choice. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > I would have ice spawn randomly and not just in the same systems all the time. A bit more randomness to ice belt locality would be welcome, just looking up the places on dotlan makes things too easy. > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > The cloaker has to actually work for things (being AFK cloaky doesn’t have that psychological fear thing because the locals can’t see you) and the locals have to be on their toes and do things like have defence fleets around as they can’t tell just who might be in the system. Don’t be silly, the last thing the PvP crowd want to do is return to the days of having to baby sit a bunch of dirty PvE players. > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > The people that lose here are the afk cloakers and the null bear / afk ratters. AFK cloakers running their d-scan scraping bots won’t be affected and there is no way the described change will positively influence a reduction in AFK ratting without also harming genuine ratting. > [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](#): > > How would you feel if cloaked ships would automaticly decloak or log after an hour of inactivity? Warping cloaked would count as activity. Changing alignment direction would count, and so forth? It would just be botted or macro’d to irrelevance. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Why spend time D-Scanning when all i have to do is watch local chat? See it turn red, run for a station till they leave. It’s a kinda cheat in a way. I also agree that the “fear factor” of not knowing if a system is populated heavily or perhaps not at all would bring a whole new and exciting side to Eve. Fear factor? zKillboard. Dotlan. Eve stopped being existing for those who have the right tooling years ago. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Take away the bonus drone damage from Skiffs. They are a mining ship and not a drone platform so they should not hit like a Gila. Why? at least one of the mining ships has to have a better tank than a garbage can lid. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Allow an orca to fit one gun so as to defend itself against rats. Capital sized gun sound right? > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Mining drones only in the drone bay! Please stop. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Secondly,… stop the command bursts. Many will fly one orca and slave up to 12 multi boxed skiffs or hulks to it that mine like demons when getting boosts. Just stop it. That creates these one-man mining fleets we see so many of. Mining boosts were the whole point of mining command ships before CCP decided they needed to be on grid. > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > Allow the Ventures to fit an ice laser and get rid of the Endurance. This would allow alpha players to “try out” ice mining. Same with a gas cloud harvesters. Alpha players already can gas mine. The endurance should be able to warp while cloaked just like the Prospect, or the Prospect needs to be changed to have the same limitations as the Endurance, it makes no sense for them to be different. Alpha players can already do too much. Lock them down to empire factions only and stop them from fitting T2 modules already! > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > And give the HS rats real guns!!! I understand that rats in 1.0 systems are the easiest, but seriously? There are no belt rats in 1.0 and 0.9 systems. All these suggestions show a disconnect in understanding the current game mechanics and implementing suggestions based on an incorrect picture would be worse than simply leaving things as they are. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I disagree, the player has invested time, effort and ISK to run missions. The reward from mission running barely covers the cost of munitions. NPC bounty, LP’s, standings and any loot / salvage gained from missions is minor compared to other activities in the game. Barely covers the cost of munitions? Aren’t all high security space mission runners using afk drone boats that spit out PLEX into space? > [@Arrendis](#): > > Well, not exactly. In fact, you’re specifically turning it into exactly what I said it shouldn’t be: the cloaky should still show up in local _for the people who own the system_. This is a much better proposal, it gives a unique benefit to owning the tcu/I-hub that doesn’t currently exist. > [@Arrendis](#): > > They’re a T2 ship. It costs 7x the T1 version, just for the hull. It gets to fight back better. Or do you think it should mine 7x as much? Lol, if the skiff mined 7x as much its other stats would probably be so bad that it has negative resists and 500 m^3 ore hold. > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > Besides I don’t think I trust CCP to manage that. Definitely not. > [@Arrendis](#): > > How horribly do you think _that_ could get abused by 200 dudes in stealth bombers? Its 1 dude with 200 accounts doing the abuse. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Your suggestion is definitely in the second category. Imagine having 4000 stealthers in a system. The cyno pilot sees 1 person in local, but nothing works right when the fleet tries to jump in. Tidi spikes at seeming random all over the game. And you know where we’d abuse it the _most_? Yes, and I would hope that you would abuse it relentlessly until CCP implements a fix. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Because you can cloak there, and if you think we like screwing with _one another_, you clearly ain’t seen how most of null likes screwing with highsec. It is interesting to note that in high security space, those with bad standings to the local faction will be forbidden from cloaking. That is not currently a mechanic in Null, for whatever reason. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, there’s much more instances of mission / exploration site invasion done in High Sec (or Low Sec) than in Null Sec. Because in High Security you can’t shoot at someone stealing your cans. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > All done in an attempt to keep CCP’s attention focused upon High Sec instead of the massive risk free ISK printing content available in Null Sec. Its more dangerous to run missions in High Security space, as gankers can be dealt with on more fair terms outside of empire space. Its quite common to see systems near incursions being used by gankers to take advantage of the resistances reduction to blow people up more easily. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The devs need to get out there and actually _experience_ the gameplay, in a more than cursory manner. before they attempt to balance it. Yep, this seems to be sorely lacking, despite the relaxation around the rules in CCP playing under ‘regular’ accounts. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Sorry, but why? > If they aren’t able to connect to it, Why The F are they getting tracked by it. > They are turning a transponder on for their enemy to track them? That’s just silly. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. So there is a point to paying million of ISK a week for TCP/IHUB modules? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I don’t see how you can make that comparison, standings are required to access high level missions which means Mission Runners invest a lot more time, effort and ISK compared to Ratters. There are not many null groups that are going to let you into their space to rat without contributing back in return, even a rental corporation is going to want their cut come end of the month. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > But they clearly aren’t connected to ‘Your’ router, since they don’t have your local, so again. No. There was this guy who annoyed people leeching off his open wifi by using a program to make all the words backwards and flip the images upside down. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Nobody said anything about transporting equipment or traveling to different sectors of space. Then your comparison is fundamentally dishonest. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Location logistics isn’t part of the topic, there’s Ratters in High Sec as well. What? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Seriously, I can’t believe that you think Mission Runners and Ratters both invest the same amount of time, effort and ISK to perform their chosen content. Its like a year just to sit in a super and turn the headlights on and off. > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > Remove local and replace it with a new and improved remake of D-scan which has modules that you can fit to your ship to improve d-scan with (to a degree of accuracy) angle’s and distance’s with penetration modules that can see through cloaking tech and combat recon’s deflective surface’s. Apart from cloaks, these things are called combat probes. > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > Make people work for their intelligence and be rewarded many fold for it. Then remove dotlan, zkillboard and all the ‘free intel’ that gets spewed out by “The Agency” and the in game map! > [@Kipsley\_Caton](#): > > So how could a ship “go dark” in New eden, laying in wait or pretending to be space-junk only to suddenly become active and pounce? Or to wait while an enemy past slowly by? Its called a cloak. > [@Tursiops\_Truncatus](#): > > Just buy another PLEX and SKILL injector, thats all CCP cares about. It is feeling that way more and more every day. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > So far scarcity phase is a fail or need be prolonged much much longer. The moment PLEX price is going down significantly marks a valid turn around point. Have to agree here, people who stockpiled are still sitting on the stockpile. > [@Arrendis](#): > > You know that the big PLEX sellers manipulate that price, right? The PLEX illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/777 "2021-01-11T02:05:17Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Its like a year just to sit in a super and turn the headlights on and off. **WE GET HEADLIGHTS?!?** > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Apart from cloaks, these things are called combat probes. There is, I’ve found, very limited value in explaining to people who don’t even know what the mechanics currently are. It doesn’t stop me, because I’m a smart-ass who enjoys blathering on about crap, but, you know, just sayin’. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > The PLEX illuminati? Nah, just the same market-alts that sell tens of thousands of units of PLEX to themselves in order to establish specific cits as ‘this is where PLEX get traded’. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/778 "2021-01-11T02:18:07Z")
Instead of posting one giant ‘Wall Of Text’ consisting of multiple quotes & replies to different posters, just take your time and address each poster in a separate reply. That will make it a lot easier to keep track of the various convo’s you’re jumping into. As such, I had to trash 2/3rds of your reply just to isolate all of the posts directed towards me. Also doing selective quoting of a small sub-section of the entire statement actually portrays that statement out of context. I don’t know if it’s done accidently or on purpose but it certainly derails and misrepresents the actual conversation. By the way, my replies were initiated by a remark from Arrendis who stated that Mission Running and Ratting both required little effort that rewarded massive ISK generation. I have no desire to continue that discussion but I will address your comments. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > I disagree, the player has invested time, effort and ISK to run missions. The reward from mission running barely covers the cost of munitions. NPC bounty, LP’s, standings and any loot / salvage gained from missions is minor compared to other activities in the game. > > Barely covers the cost of munitions? Aren’t all high security space mission runners using afk drone boats that spit out PLEX into space? Using sarcasm in an attempt to make a point actually makes the point not worth making. Anyway, the actual point of my reply = rewards from Mission Running do not generate massive ISK. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Anyway, there’s much more instances of mission / exploration site invasion done in High Sec (or Low Sec) than in Null Sec. > > Because in High Security you can’t shoot at someone stealing your cans. I partially agree, however my reply was in direct opposition to a statement that High Sec mission / exploration sites are ‘Risk Free’ massive ISK generation. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > All done in an attempt to keep CCP’s attention focused upon High Sec instead of the massive risk free ISK printing content available in Null Sec. > > Its more dangerous to run missions in High Security space, as gankers can be dealt with on more fair terms outside of empire space. Its quite common to see systems near incursions being used by gankers to take advantage of the resistances reduction to blow people up more easily. I agree, however my statement was actually an attempt to explain why Arrendis was so adamant in stating that High Sec content is ‘Risk Free’ massive ISK generation. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > I don’t see how you can make that comparison, standings are required to access high level missions which means Mission Runners invest a lot more time, effort and ISK compared to Ratters. > > There are not many null groups that are going to let you into their space to rat without contributing back in return, even a rental corporation is going to want their cut come end of the month. And now your reply is doing the same thing that I pointed out earlier, logistics and or location has no relevance to the initial statement that Mission Running and Ratting are the same which require little effort for massive ISK generation. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Nobody said anything about transporting equipment or traveling to different sectors of space. > > Then your comparison is fundamentally dishonest. No it’s not. What’s dishonest is people trying to add extra variables afterwards to the initial statement in an attempt to prove that Ratting requires more time, effort and ISK to engage in compared to Mission Running. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Location logistics isn’t part of the topic, there’s Ratters in High Sec as well. > > What? Some people seem to think Ratters only operate in Null Sec space. A brand new player starts the game with no knowledge or access to resources. Brand new players who want to pursue a Ratting career usually start in High Sec and as they gain experience and increase their character skills, they eventually move on to other sectors of space. > [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Seriously, I can’t believe that you think Mission Runners and Ratters both invest the same amount of time, effort and ISK to perform their chosen content. > > Its like a year just to sit in a super and turn the headlights on and off. As I stated earlier, location and or logistics parameters are not relevant to the initial statement. What your statement does is move the goalposts again by adding extra variables in an attempt to prove that Ratting requires more time, effort and ISK compared to Mission Running. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/779 "2021-01-11T05:35:10Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Then remove dotlan, zkillboard and all the ‘free intel’ that gets spewed out by “The Agency” and the in game map! I would trade no local + improved d-scan for the lack of dotlan and a 4 hour delayed zkill anyday imo. Yes combat probing exists but its so freaking slow that anyone will know instantly that they are being scanned down. (slow as in 15-20 seconds, everything is gone by then) As it is now I have reduced my d-scanning of ships in anoms to about 4 or 5 seconds and even then when I land they are already warping out local for each system is op. I would need to reduce scanning to about 2 seconds to make it in time which is asking a bit much. I would even trade it for a combined constellation local instead of a local for each system with the above as that would be a mass improvement on what we have now. ---
**Author:** ![Pith\_Hurdaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pith_hurdaa/32/198748_2.png) [@Pith\_Hurdaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pith_Hurdaa)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/780 "2021-01-11T06:56:33Z")
Oh please stop biting the blackout baits that are being thrown. It is just a rant from the 133t pvpr´s that want the easy fat kills without counter that the AFK cloakcamping was feeding them and that are being fixed. Blackout will never return, period, no company would shoot at their foot tht way, not twice at least. They don´t even have to renounce to the riskless fat defenseless kills, that´s what filaments were created for: Filament in, look for the easy kill of the lone ratter or miner, there is some kind of defensive response?, wait in safes and filament out. But ofc, that requires a small degree of engagement and being active at the computer, of course. Guess they are angry because they like more the AFK, low engagement style of the cloakcamping. They are almost PvP bots. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/781 "2021-01-11T06:59:56Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Instead of posting one giant ‘Wall Of Text’ consisting of multiple quotes & replies to different posters, just take your time and address each poster in a separate reply. Discourse yells at you if you do that, alas. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/782 "2021-01-11T09:38:40Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > WE GET HEADLIGHTS?!? Yeah, the lights turn on and off when you get into structure. > [@Arrendis](#): > > There is, I’ve found, very limited value in explaining to people who don’t even know what the mechanics currently are. It doesn’t stop me, because I’m a smart-ass who enjoys blathering on about crap, but, you know, just sayin’. All of the little animals in the forest have feelings, even the ugly and the stupid ones. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Nah, just the same market-alts that sell tens of thousands of units of PLEX to themselves in order to establish specific cits as ‘this is where PLEX get traded’. Ah a practical implementation of that strategy you suggested to counter the DBS and MESS, by artificially controlling the cost of a automatic targeting module. Nice. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Instead of posting one giant ‘Wall Of Text’ consisting of multiple quotes & replies to different posters, just take your time and address each poster in a separate reply. The CCP forum bot tells me I can’t so it gets punished with the inverse behaviour its not programmed to flag, as this is Eve. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I don’t know if it’s done accidently or on purpose but it certainly derails and misrepresents the actual conversation. Ok, I will endeavour to do more complete quoting in future. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, the actual point of my reply = rewards from Mission Running do not generate massive ISK. Its relative, when everyone starts off on their Eve career your first million ISK is like winning the lottery. Hell, I got into a thrasher and thought I was king of the hill. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I partially agree, however my reply was in direct opposition to a statement that High Sec mission / exploration sites are ‘Risk Free’ massive ISK generation. I guess I agree with you agreeing? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I agree, however my statement was actually an attempt to explain why Arrendis was so adamant in stating that High Sec content is ‘Risk Free’ massive ISK generation. I guess we agree again? I just don’t think high security space generates a massive amount of ISK as per the MER compared to say, Null. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > And now your reply is doing the same thing that I pointed out earlier, logistics and or location has no relevance to the initial statement that Mission Running and Ratting are the same which require little effort for massive ISK generation. There are guides on the internet for both, though only Null has a barrier of entry that isn’t always surmountable by in game mechanics, if nobody in Null likes you, you’re not going to be able to operate without constant harassment. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > No it’s not. What’s dishonest is people trying to add extra variables afterwards to the initial statement in an attempt to prove that Ratting requires more time, effort and ISK to engage in compared to Mission Running. So instead the argument is that the initial statement was incomplete? > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Some people seem to think Ratters only operate in Null Sec space. Well, people killing NPC’s in low sec are not ratters, they’re just misguided. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Brand new players who want to pursue a Ratting career usually start in High Sec and as they gain experience and increase their character skills, they eventually move on to other sectors of space. Maybe. When I used to recruit, the number of High Security space people that flew ships awfully fit with the wrong shielding or damage types never stopped. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > What your statement does is move the goalposts again by adding extra variables in an attempt to prove that Ratting requires more time, effort and ISK compared to Mission Running. Which is going to cost more, a twink SP gila pilot in Null or High Security space? > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > I would trade no local + improved d-scan for the lack of dotlan and a 4 hour delayed zkill anyday imo. Well, maybe CCP will grant that wish via iHUB upgrades? > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > Yes combat probing exists but its so freaking slow that anyone will know instantly that they are being scanned down. (slow as in 15-20 seconds, everything is gone by then) True, too many times some prat in a imperial navy slicer would come into the area I used to live and just jack off to warping around every time they saw 8 combat probes in d-scan. It was just silly. > [@Makshima\_Shogo](#): > > As it is now I have reduced my d-scanning of ships in anoms to about 4 or 5 seconds and even then when I land they are already warping out local for each system is op. I would need to reduce scanning to about 2 seconds to make it in time which is asking a bit much. It would be nice if a ship is scanned down, you can just keep warping to the sig? > [@Pith\_Hurdaa](#): > > Blackout will never return, period, no company would shoot at their foot tht way, not twice at least. Looking at the most recent MER, it looks like it has. > [@Pith\_Hurdaa](#): > > Filament in, look for the easy kill of the lone ratter or miner, there is some kind of defensive response?, wait in safes and filament out. But ofc, that requires a small degree of engagement and being active at the computer, of course. Filaments or Black Ops bridging, its all just a vehicle for risk adverse gameplay. > [@Pith\_Hurdaa](#): > > They are almost PvP bots. That is an excellent characterisation. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Discourse yells at you if you do that, alas. If only it did some kind of automatic merging of posts? ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/783 "2021-01-11T10:37:20Z")
Why these posts are that much difficult to read and fallow suddenly? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 10:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/784 "2021-01-11T10:47:43Z")
Readability is down because some people _cough Litsea cough_ put too many unrelated quotes in one post instead of answering topics one by one. (Sorry about that sneeze, I should get myself tested!) ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/785 "2021-01-11T11:41:30Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Instead of posting one giant ‘Wall Of Text’ consisting of multiple quotes & replies to different posters, just take your time and address each poster in a separate reply. > > Discourse yells at you if you do that, alas. That Discourse message can be easily X-ed out. ---
**Author:** ![Mosimos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mosimos/32/250176_2.png) [@Mosimos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mosimos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/786 "2021-01-11T12:16:10Z")
“No EVE Ecosystem post would be complete without discussion of bots and RMT. Please don’t buy ISK from RMTers and don’t let your friends buy ISK from RMTers, either. Botting and RMT negatively affect everyone. Thank you all for reporting bots, the in-game bot reporting tool is being prepared for further improvement.” You won’t want to exterminate the bots as the bots play the game and keep it alive. At the RMT you also earn or even participate in it. I unmasked a market bot, it is still working today and is ruining my profit. You already know how to influence the market. The whole game with the records for the Guinness Book is a lie and 30 - even 50% filled with bots. I played the game from 2007 to the end of 2013, when there were already bots. An account in Allianz had 20+ bots running. I wanted to take a break, but in 2015 I no longer have access to my accounts and the Corp. Now at the end of 2020 I tried again to start with a new account, the graphics are super cool, the ships look great, but the bots are still there, probably more than before. They rule the market and thus also the game. The blackout in 0 was ok, every player who cried had bots running - 80% of the falling number of players were bots. And a remedy for the long-term clocky camper is the best, easiest and fastest way to chase meteor showers through the system at indefinite intervals. Sometimes it comes after 10 minutes and stops twice, sometimes it comes after 3 hours and only lasts 1 minute or 20 minutes. The particles in the storm are 2-4 km apart and make a decklock 100%. Every player in the 0 has safespots that he can keep alive during the time-the 95% of the bots stop and can be destroyed. Unfortunately, the game is contaminated by bots. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/787 "2021-01-11T13:57:44Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Readability is down because some people _cough Litsea cough_ put too many unrelated quotes in one post instead of answering topics one by one. At least you know I am reading what everyone says. I’ll try to reign that in as part of 2021 resolutions. > [@Mosimos](#): > > Sometimes it comes after 10 minutes and stops twice, sometimes it comes after 3 hours and only lasts 1 minute or 20 minutes. > The particles in the storm are 2-4 km apart and make a decklock 100%. > > Every player in the 0 has safespots that he can keep alive during the time-the 95% of the bots stop and can be destroyed. Not an awful idea, might be an interesting new storm type for CCP to implement. Years ago on my first account I was parked off a jump bridge POS cloaked in a slasher looking at something on another screen. Some red bomber comes out of nowhere and bombs the jump bridge module. Dropped me into armour, if I remember at the time. Didn’t cause cloak to drop though. Last time I hung around a POS outside the shield though. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/788 "2021-01-11T20:53:03Z")
> [@Litsea\_Reticulata](#): > > Ah a practical implementation of that strategy you suggested to counter the DBS and MESS, by artificially controlling the cost of a automatic targeting module. Nice. More like the operational precedent. They’ve been doing it since citadels went in. ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/789 "2021-01-11T21:50:24Z")
You think the change to remove %0 fee market citadels was done to slow this kind of price fixing down? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/790 "2021-01-12T00:04:16Z")
No, it was done to remove ISK from the economy. You’re not going to stop the people who have tons of money AND massive piles of PLEX from setting the price unless you absolutely _break_ supply and demand and set an artificial price-point from NPCs. Which CCP won’t do, because the whole point of PLEX is that players buy them from CCP, and then sell them to other players for ISK, and those other players use them for game time, SKINs, etc. When you look at all those different sell orders? Dozens of them, hundreds of them, each with a few thousand PLEX, all trying to 0.01 ISK one another? That’s a _very_ small group of people, 0.01 ISKing their own orders. As an example, all the PLEX orders (buy _and_ sell) that went up each time the ‘I CHOOSE YOU’ guy put down another market citadel? _Those were all him_. Same guy that owned the market they were being traded on. Eat the fees to keep the prices profitable. They hold the volume, they create the demand w/buy orders. Sell below their price, they snap up your PLEX and relist them. If you’re not willing to completely destroy EVE’s economy, you won’t change that. And by ‘destroy’, I don’t mean ‘bleed assets out of it’ or ‘use scarcity’. I mean ‘buy everything from NPC vendors, sell everything to NPC vendors’. And even _then_, player-to-player transactions will still follow simple supply-and-demand rules. That’s how economic activity works. ---
**Author:** ![Markus\_Jr\_KormienkoXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/markus_jr_kormienkoxii/32/250822_2.png) [@Markus\_Jr\_KormienkoXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Markus_Jr_KormienkoXII)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/791 "2021-01-12T02:34:54Z")
I have AlexzanderKormienko and times my account for the dev blogger information can not accurately identify my security sources of my own account or access to the others in my accounts . what time do I have to read 9 to 8 and redo my password in order to get into the forums and look what is brand new in my announcements but I need to learn on EVE Online. And then when I do that it says cellular wrong account like error all the time error message error message over and over again repeatedly and then it says I have to many failed to acknowledge I am the owner of an account read to me by the rented account that I belong to because I’m renting to you guys on EVE Online from CCP ---
**Author:** ![StainedRocket](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stainedrocket/32/250845_2.png) [@StainedRocket](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/StainedRocket)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/792 "2021-01-12T10:02:19Z")
Cake from 9 to 5, reading sun towards baggage - Insalata wordika ---
**Author:** ![you\_are\_evil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/you_are_evil/32/246754_2.png) [@you\_are\_evil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/you_are_evil)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/793 "2021-01-12T10:29:46Z")
I do not understand what you want to say Please use something like this one > **[DeepL Translate](https://www.deepl.com/translator)** > > Use the free DeepL Translator to translate your texts with the best machine translation available, powered by DeepL’s world-leading neural network technology. Currently supported languages are English, German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian,... or this. > **[Google Translate](https://translate.google.com/)** [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=33) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=35)