# The EVE Online Ecosystem Outlook **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [December 27, 2020, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097 "2020-12-27T11:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortigern_vitalis/32/455600_2.png) [@Vortigern\_Vitalis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortigern_Vitalis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 10:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/176 "2020-12-28T10:26:49Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Why would they nerf highsec mining again after just redistributing things? Makes no sense. There might indeed be nerfs to the highsec mining meta indirectly with a (much needed) nerf to the auto-mining Orca, but mining itself was just rebalanced. As a solo miner who mainly relies on his Orca, I do not see them as a problem in HS. The problem is with the multi-boxed (polite) or bot (impolite) fleets which strip ice fields in no time at all. Little old me in my Orca is doing quite well if I can get 50-75 ice (compared to a full load of 260) from a field before it is stripped bare. Orca mining is slower than most other options, but is a sensible risk/gain balance for a solo player. As for rock mining, it is again a slow process, and needs continual management given the relatively small asteroid sizes and the need to move the Orca close to each rock in turn to be more efficient, compared to standoff ranges on lasers. If Orcas are a problem in HS, I can only assume it is really a bot problem, not with the ship itself… and CCP tell us that they are doing really well on combatting the bots… ---
**Author:** ![safira\_jomita](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/safira_jomita/32/405219_2.png) [@safira\_jomita](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/safira_jomita)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/177 "2020-12-28T10:29:46Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > expectation of new players and exposing them to PvP early Correct is “exposing them to slaughter early” and then a good amount of them say " rekt this game I’ll play something else" ---
**Author:** ![Tau\_Phoenix](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_phoenix/32/440375_2.png) [@Tau\_Phoenix](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/178 "2020-12-28T11:00:24Z")
> [@Haplo\_Shannow](#): > > So enjoy the state of your game when the WWB2 is over and your numbers drop. This is something I also predict. It is a shame because the Core of Eve is its players and when they don’t log in or interact with the game then there tends to be a domino effect. Less players equals less targets/miners/ratters/PvP content etc. Let’s revisit this thread in six months time and see what the outcome is, assuming the current war is concluded by then. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/179 "2020-12-28T11:05:25Z")
Be wierd if the catalyst for revering from scarcity phase was the end of the war WOULDNT IT? Be almost like leading folk around by their wallets lol ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/180 "2020-12-28T11:07:04Z")
People speack to CSM representative here beacause CCP don’t answer a lot in this kind of thread … and often avoid to answer when people explain how some of you’re change lead to oppositie of what you want. My PM is oppen if you want an explain of you’re community modelisation and how to achieve a healthy state of the game with more destruction, more player and mor fun. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/181 "2020-12-28T11:10:05Z")
I dont see the problem, if you spend to many time under ennemy line you must take risk. But if you want to avoid that : You consume fuel after you’re first 15 min in a raw of cloacking. If you have no fuel and you go to more of you’re max cloacking time you’re module overheat until it breack. Not a big issue for explorer, you don’t need to stay cloack for AGES, you couls decloack in warp and recloack … ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/182 "2020-12-28T11:17:32Z")
Warning: high level of irony may disguise the intent Prominently missing from the dev blog: - removal of the red dots - fixing EDENCOM ship weapon system to something useful (why not make them an antibomb/missile screen) followed by… - …revisiting the economy of building Edencom ships and weapon systems - expanding on triglavian PvE, supporting the production of Trig ship line - virtual FanFest with online presentations in case of more Covid shenanigans - ironing out the career agent mission errors - use careful wording to reduce the level of angst on social media when hinting at changes - return of the Alliance Tournament - build a new star gate to connect hs amarr and caldari space - reduce level of glare in space and get rid of generic rocks in mission sites ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Kalagan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_kalagan/32/248379_2.png) [@Kal\_Kalagan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Kalagan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/183 "2020-12-28T11:29:15Z")
Dear CCP I strongly urge you to consider very carefully any changes to the cloaking mechanics, an entire type of game play could be destroyed. The group I play with don’t just roam hostile space hunting in cloaky ships before returning to some ‘home’ station, we literally live behind enemy lines, deployed in extremely hostile space. We log on in system, hunt and log off in space at the end of the day. I personally only dock to reship as the journey to/from out hunting grounds is perilous in the extreme for anything that can’t be bridged. A cloak is a necessity, so almost all our combat ships fit cloaks, as do our alts who are used as scouts (eyes), or who sit in resupply/loot drop blockade runners or in Black Ops bridgers. Without cloaks we would be probed and killed in seconds when the enemy are actively looking for us. Any change that would require these ships to consume a fuel type or that would mean the cloak would expire after a given amount of time will lead to ships being needless lost. On the other hand I understand the need to stop people spinning up dozens of AFK campers as a means to deny ISK making opportunities to their opponents across multiple systems. I don’t really know where a suitable line of balance can be drawn but please don’t remove the ability to deploy/ live behind enemy lines. Regards Kal. ---
**Author:** ![Shadalana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadalana/32/207845_2.png) [@Shadalana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadalana)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/184 "2020-12-28T11:38:31Z")
> [@Kal\_Kalagan](#): > > Without cloaks we would be probed and killed in seconds when the enemy are actively looking for us. thats the point, when cloaks deny the option to actively hunt someone for ever, then something is wrong with cloaks. being cloaked means to be safer then in highsec ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/185 "2020-12-28T11:45:10Z")
Being safe while doing nothing? So all neutral stations should also be removed then. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Kalagan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_kalagan/32/248379_2.png) [@Kal\_Kalagan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Kalagan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/186 "2020-12-28T11:46:20Z")
Our opponents get the benefit of stations, all their alliance mates in local (400+ usually), standing defense fleets, capital support and all the other benefits of sov space. We forego all of those benefits for the ability to chose when and where to fight thanks to our cloaks. When we de-cloak to fight our opponents are able to bring all those benefits to bear and if we are not extremely careful we get caught and killed. The opponents that we kill are the ones not in standing fleet, don’t read intel and don’t use scouts. I think that’s fairly balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Shadalana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shadalana/32/207845_2.png) [@Shadalana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shadalana)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/187 "2020-12-28T11:55:33Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So all neutral stations should also be removed then. stations kann be removed within 3 days, aren’t they? (excluding NPC stations, but hey everyone is safe there) > [@Kal\_Kalagan](#): > > I think that’s fairly balanced. na, you have immunity forever and no way to stop it. no change says “remove cloak” that would be wrong, because they have uses. But how about every n minutes your cloak drops for x minutes? n and x would depend on the adm and an ihub upgrade so if you travel thorug or doing exploration it would not affect you, but if you choose to stay there for hours, day, weeks you would need to put effort in it to stay alive ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/189 "2020-12-28T11:56:43Z")
Actually n,o you could kill carrier in 45S before he receive help for exemple. Subcap ? 20 second. Perma cloackign need to be nerf to oblivion. For me if you stay claock and afk you desserve to die. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/190 "2020-12-28T11:58:40Z")
Perma cloacky pvp bear want free KM with no risk. Explorer take risk and work hard for each isk … like people who make money in null. You really think maintain a defense fleet, intel and other is not an effort ? And again the nerf could be for long term cloack not for short cloacking. So explorer will maybe not be impact by this. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Kalagan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_kalagan/32/248379_2.png) [@Kal\_Kalagan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Kalagan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/191 "2020-12-28T12:01:39Z")
There is extreme risk in what we do. If you doubt that then I invite you to try living and hunting in a hostile staging system. One slip up and you die. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/192 "2020-12-28T12:03:04Z")
Hunt in hostile stagign is easier than hunt in other system due to cyno mechanic. And in staging system if you need PERMA cloack to hunt you are bad that all. no you don’t need to be cloack HOURS and HOURS to hunt in staging system, unless you are AFK. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Kalagan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_kalagan/32/248379_2.png) [@Kal\_Kalagan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Kalagan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/193 "2020-12-28T12:04:28Z")
Like I say, try it and then re-visit that statement. ---
**Author:** ![Dictateur\_Imperator](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dictateur_imperator/32/452018_2.png) [@Dictateur\_Imperator](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dictateur_Imperator)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/194 "2020-12-28T12:07:32Z")
I have already done it. And without be perma cloack … You know just need to warp and don’t stay AFK. If you need perma cloack to kill people, you are risk aversser pvp player, and give a coutner to this is good for game health. ---
**Author:** ![Neo\_Bladedrifter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/neo_bladedrifter/32/244232_2.png) [@Neo\_Bladedrifter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Neo_Bladedrifter)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/195 "2020-12-28T12:11:52Z")
There are ways to counter your gameplays. it’s just some null players are too lazy to do some strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Kal\_Kalagan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kal_kalagan/32/248379_2.png) [@Kal\_Kalagan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kal_Kalagan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097/196 "2020-12-28T12:12:00Z")
you are confusing running a small gang through hostile space and having the ability to live there. We hunt decloaked for a bit, kill a few ships on a gate camp with our small gang of 5-10 people. Then hostiles swarm, 100+ Harpies or Jackdaws come swarming out of the enemy Keepstar we have to get clear and cloak until things calm down. They are probing for 30-40 minutes, maybe longer before they calm down. Trust me, being aligned in a safe with your combat ship and warping before hostile fleet lands on your spot is one thing, doing it with your main plus your your alt scout and a resupply viator while being probed is not a viable option. Are you saying that at that stage we should be forced to retreat from system? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-eve-online-ecosystem-outlook/287097.md?page=10)