# The events in Colelie, and why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424 "2018-04-18T05:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/282 "2018-04-27T00:23:14Z")
Just as with Miss Arrendis, you are certainly welcome to your own personal opinions and prejudices, Miss Kim. As I have already said, I have little inclination disabusing them because neither of you are important enough to me for me to expend the effort. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/283 "2018-04-27T00:26:55Z")
> [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > Just as with Miss Arrendis, you are certainly welcome to your own personal opinions and prejudices, Miss Kim. As I have already said, I have little inclination disabusing them because neither of you are important enough to me for me to expend the effort. And yet you dare to open your mouth, foolishly claiming I have “prejudices”, backing your words by nothing but your rants. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/284 "2018-04-27T00:31:48Z")
And yet we both inevitably do. To have a “prejudice” is to pre-judge-- basically, to have an opinion about … anything … without actually knowing much about it. I came to the Empire to challenge mine, and found out I was wrong about a lot of them. (And right about a few.) Probably I hold bazillions more I’m not aware of, not having thought much about them-- precisely because I haven’t thought, or learned, much about them. They’re not a special brand of dishonor, Ms. Kim. They’re standard human equipment. Which doesn’t make them good; just normal. They’re basically just opinions held in ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/285 "2018-04-27T00:44:03Z")
I am Caldari, Ms. Jenneth, and I tend to build my opinions on facts or personal experiences. As example, I can say I had very little opinions on Minmatars before I became capsuleer, but now, after talking with them, after studying their behavior, history, etc, I have quite a lot of opinion, each of them caused by one event or another. I don’t know a lot of things. In fact, I know very, very little, and not just about foreigners, I don’t know everything about even my own people. But I avoid holding opinions out of ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/286 "2018-04-27T03:33:20Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > And yet you dare to open your mouth, foolishly claiming I have “prejudices”, backing your words by nothing but your rants. You have expressed an opinion about a society foreign to your own while admitting thusly: > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I don’t know a lot of things. In fact, I know very, very little, and not just about foreigners, I don’t know everything about even my own people. Holding an opinion about that which you admit you know very little about is the very definition of prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/287 "2018-04-27T06:11:02Z")
> [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > You have expressed an opinion about a society foreign to your own while admitting thusly: I’ve expressed a conclusion that I got after reviewing arguments and evidences. A conclusion that you failed to contradict logically, but so hard trying to show your “disagreement”. If you can argue - then do so. If you can just squeal with disagreements - stop wasting my time. > [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > Holding an opinion about that which you admit you know very little about is the very definition of prejudice. I can’t cope with your degree of ignorance, but I’ll try to explain one more time, maybe I’ll get lucky and you’ll finally get it. I don’t know everything and physically can’t know everything. But I can make conclusion based on available DATA. I don’t make opinion about everything about gallentes. I make opinions after I LEARN something. In this conversation I’ve learned about condescendence of gallente people and about your… err… abilities, which sort of reflect gallente manner of reasoning (with which I have already been unlucky to meet). Though more precisely, your manners at disagreement don’t really show me something new, they only strengthen my knowledge about gallente behavior by examples that you presented with type of your… “arguments”. I’ve noticed conclusion made about condescendence of gallente people. I’ve noticed gallente people behaving with condescendence. I’ve seen absolutely none examples to prove that false. And I’ve saw a particular gallentean, squealing at that conclusion without providing counter-argument. At this point I’d like to say that the hypothesis of condescendence of gallente people was proven, and there is no further need of keeping arguing about that issue. Neither I think you’ll be able to provide any valuable information whatsoever. Though, if you think you can show me more examples of gallente behavior - go ahead, I won’t stop you. I might even read that and give a reply, and might use your words as examples of gallente behavior in one of my further arguments about nature of gallenteans. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/288 "2018-04-27T13:11:06Z")
🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/289 "2018-04-27T14:38:41Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I can’t cope with your degree of ignorance, but I’ll try to explain one more time, maybe I’ll get lucky and you’ll finally get it. > > I don’t know everything and physically can’t know everything. But I can make conclusion based on available DATA. I don’t make opinion about everything about gallentes. I make opinions after I LEARN something. > > In this conversation I’ve learned about condescendence of gallente people and about your… err… abilities, which sort of reflect gallente manner of reasoning (with which I have already been unlucky to meet). Though more precisely, your manners at disagreement don’t really show me something new, they only strengthen my knowledge about gallente behavior by examples that you presented with type of your… “arguments”. > > I’ve noticed conclusion made about condescendence of gallente people. > > I’ve noticed gallente people behaving with condescendence. > > I’ve seen absolutely none examples to prove that false. > > And I’ve saw a particular gallentean, squealing at that conclusion without providing counter-argument. > > At this point I’d like to say that the hypothesis of condescendence of gallente people was proven, and there is no further need of keeping arguing about that issue. > > Neither I think you’ll be able to provide any valuable information whatsoever. Though, if you think you can show me more examples of gallente behavior - go ahead, I won’t stop you. I might even read that and give a reply, and might use your words as examples of gallente behavior in one of my further arguments about nature of gallenteans You seem upset. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/290 "2018-04-27T15:02:38Z")
> [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > You seem upset. If you think so, you should go look for some of her posting history. That’s Diana being downright agreeable and dative. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/291 "2018-04-27T18:52:15Z")
> [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > You seem upset. Upset, ha! Why would I be upset about gallente condescendence? Unless… you are just trying to project your own feeling on me. That will be highly unwise. But I could understand why you might be upset at the conclusion about gallente condescendence. You might realize it might be true, you hate it, and you just try to wriggle out by all means necessary, trying to object even lacking any objective arguments. You’ll have to accept objective reality if you wish to live in this world. The end of Gallente Federation is nigh, and when it happens, all the lies will shatter. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/292 "2018-04-27T21:54:36Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > You’ll have to accept objective reality if you wish to live in this world. The end of Gallente Federation is nigh, and when it happens, all the lies will shatter. Except for that whole bit about ‘The Caldari State has committed to not actually winning the war against the Federation, and attempting to do so would be a dishonorable breach of their obligations under the Yulai treaties.’ ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/293 "2018-04-27T21:57:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Except for that whole bit about ‘The Caldari State has committed to not actually winning the war against the Federation, and attempting to do so would be a dishonorable breach of their obligations under the Yulai treaties.’ This topic is not about the State, nor the place to spread false rumors about the State. One of Megacorporation almost went bankrupt for committing to the war, thus your first claim (that the State hasn’t committed to actually winning the war) is wrong. Yulai treaties were already breached by Federation with their Operation Highlander, and thus we don’t have more obligations to follow them, thus claim that the breach would be dishonorable is false as well. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/294 "2018-04-27T22:02:38Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Yulai treaties were already breached by Federation with their Operation Highlander, and thus we don’t have more obligations to follow them, thus claim that the breach would be dishonorable is false as well. This is patently untrue. The State’s obligations to abide by Yulai are not solely to the Federation, but to the Empire, Republic, SoCT (as successors to the Jove) and CONCORD as well. To claim that the State is no longer obligated to abide by the treaties would mean the State is no longer a _party_ to them. In which case, the State is no longer entitled to the _protections_ of the Yulai Conventions, and CONCORD should reduce their operating costs by no longer protecting Caldari space from Capsuleer aggression. Tell me, how successful is _CalMil_ at defending the State’s taxes every year when the annual Burn events happen? ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/295 "2018-04-28T00:14:39Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Upset, ha! Why would I be upset about gallente condescendence? Unless… you are just trying to project your own feeling on me. That will be highly unwise. > > But I could understand why you might be upset at the conclusion about gallente condescendence. You might realize it might be true, you hate it, and you just try to wriggle out by all means necessary, trying to object even lacking any objective arguments. > > You’ll have to accept objective reality if you wish to live in this world. The end of Gallente Federation is nigh, and when it happens, all the lies will shatter. Those who occupy a position of superiority often appear condescending to those who are inferior. Condescension is also not an objective truth, it is a subjective and emotive truth – it is after all premised upon how someone _feels._ As such, how you or others may feel inferior vis-a-vis the Federation is your own prerogative. If you wish to discuss your own feelings I might suggest a counselor or perhaps a group therapy session on, “I am upset by the Gallente due to a fragile ego.” Unfortunately, I do not have enough concern for your own feelings to warrant them the attention you might feel they are due. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/296 "2018-04-28T01:07:17Z")
> [@Calliste\_Vausienne](#): > > Condescension is also not an objective truth, it is a subjective and emotive truth – it is after all premised upon how someone feels. While there _is_ a subjective element to whether or not someone feels condescended to, to say there’s no objective element to it is simply not true. You can definitely tell when someone is addressing someone else in a condescending or patronizing way, even if they themselves don’t realize they’re doing it. And it’s especially obvious when, in cases like this right now, they definitely _do_ mean to be. And you do mean to be condescending to Kim. ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/297 "2018-04-28T01:25:45Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And it’s especially obvious when, in cases like this right now, they definitely do mean to be. And you do mean to be condescending to Kim. My intention was to be dismissive because I consider her feelings, as no concern of my own, something to be dismissed. If you or others feel it to be condescending, then that is how you feel subjectively upon reading my words. There exists a distinction between intention and interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/298 "2018-04-28T01:33:33Z")
There does, but there’s also a difference between being dismissive and being condescending. Being dismissive’s a lot easier. It goes like this: “And I should care what you think _why_, exactly?” See, _that’s_ ‘dismissive’. Try it. Feel free to use it in responding to this reply, even. It’s easy, you’ll see. Also, by saying that, I’ve cleverly ensured that when you attempt to brush this response off, you’re just proving me right. 😉 _Condescension_, however, requires an element of ‘lemme esplain’, of telling the other person where they’re _wrong_, even as you attempt to belittle them. Which, of course, your entire post is rife with. For example: The whole thing is explaining about condescension. As for the ‘belittling’ aspect? When you start off with ‘those who occupy a position of superiority often appear condescending when they do exactly what I’m going to do now’, you pretty clearly cast yourself as _feeling_ like you’re in a position of superiority, which means _you_ feel like you’re talking down to the listener, immediately. Like, right there. It’s just sloppy. Now, feel free to be dismissive. After all, what do I care? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/299 "2018-04-28T01:53:52Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Condescension, however, requires an element of ‘lemme esplain’, of telling the other person where they’re wrong, even as you attempt to belittle them. Which, of course, your entire post is rife with. For example: The whole thing is explaining about condescension. As for the ‘belittling’ aspect? When you start off with ‘those who occupy a position of superiority often appear condescending when they do exactly what I’m going to do now’, you pretty clearly cast yourself as feeling like you’re in a position of superiority, which means you feel like you’re talking down to the listener, immediately. Like, right there. If having someone disagree with you incites feelings of being condescended to, then all I can say is such people need a thicker skin. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/300 "2018-04-28T02:32:19Z")
Ah, but now you’re conflating disagreement with condescension. It’s the combination of things that produces it. And I think you know that, you’re just being contrary now. ---
**Author:** ![Calliste\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calliste_vausienne/32/68305_2.png) [@Calliste\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calliste_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/301 "2018-04-28T02:42:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Ah, but now you’re conflating disagreement with condescension. It’s the combination of things that produces it. And I think you know that, you’re just being contrary now. I just consider that people feeling whatever they wish to feel is one thing; but the expectation that others have to take those feelings, as a subjective matter, into account is another. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=14) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=16)