# The events in Colelie, and why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424 "2018-04-18T05:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/61 "2018-04-18T23:56:08Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > Lol…like Mittens could be commissared. When the hell did I even suggest that? I asked: > [@Arrendis](#): > > Did you never see a GSF corp get commissar’d for failing to meet the Suckmetrics™ threshold? As in, a corporation doesn’t meet its required levels of contribution, so every last one of them gets kicked out. ---
**Author:** ![Ravana\_729](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravana_729/32/55540_2.png) [@Ravana\_729](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravana_729)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/62 "2018-04-19T03:46:18Z")
Well, one has to pull their weight. Imperium is a business, and the Mittani is a businessman. But he does not enslave. And you can’t commisar him. He’s a sovereign. I think this is an essential key to a strong nation, an omnipotent leader with whom one shares a vision and who respects the sovereignity of others to leave and do what they will. At no time was I ever coerced…openly at least. There was the swarm and the door. Participation was voluntary. No one is a slave in the Imperium, nor a wage slave. We kept our earnings, no matter how wealthy the wealthiest of us became. As it should be. I feel like you’re trying to discourage me from rejoining, Arrendis. Don’t worry, I have found a museum and a hobby, for now, and no wars threaten Delve ATM… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 6:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/63 "2018-04-19T06:45:46Z")
> [@Ravana\_729](#): > > I think this is an essential key to a strong nation, an omnipotent leader That doesn’t sound like someone who’s an adherent of ‘Gallente enlightenment’. The Federation certainly doesn’t have an ‘omnipotent’ leader. But no, I’m not trying to discourage you from rejoining. I’m just responding to the viewpoints you put forth. And yes, you kept your earnings… _after_ paying the corp and alliance taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Ria\_Nieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ria_nieyli/32/447728_2.png) [@Ria\_Nieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ria_Nieyli)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/64 "2018-04-19T09:03:56Z")
There’s a difference between gross and net income pretty much everywhere though. ---
**Author:** ![Rafal\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rafal_vausienne/32/64411_2.png) [@Rafal\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rafal_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/65 "2018-04-19T11:57:25Z")
Gerne Broteau was a Federal citizen, who committed a crime on Federal territory of a Federal state, and murdered Federal citizens. Whatever the feelings of Republic citizens on his actions, they are non-factors to the above facts. For what truly underpins the Federation is not democracy, it is not liberty, it is the rule of law, and it is obeyance to the law that makes democracy possible and ensures the liberties of its citizens. Gerne Broteau as a citizen of the Federation, and who committed a crime within the territory of the Federation was, under the laws of the Federation, to be afforded the right to a fair trial and to be sentenced as a result of that trial. The exigencies of Republic feelings in the matter are irrelevant, the laws of the Federation must be upheld, and they were upheld. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing further to discuss on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/66 "2018-04-19T12:29:34Z")
> [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > Whatever the feelings of Republic citizens on his actions, they are non-factors to the above facts. > [—] > As far as I am concerned, there is nothing further to discuss on the issue. I want to extend my sincere thanks to all our esteemed allies in the Federation for taking their precious time to provide the many valuable, in-depth, and concrete examples about the subject of this thread, namely “ **why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing** ”. Yours in eternal gratitude, Elsebeth Rhiannon Counter-civilized non-factor of the Sebiestor Tribe ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/67 "2018-04-19T12:49:01Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > So. You come to a thread discussing why outsiders can sound arrogant when they dismiss the deepest emotional basis of our culture, and suggest that maybe that basis is by nature counter-civilized. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > See, there you guys go again. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > I want to extend my sincere thanks to all our esteemed allies in the Federation for taking their precious time to provide the many valuable, in-depth, and concrete examples about the subject of this thread, namely “why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing”. > > Yours in eternal gratitude, > > Elsebeth Rhiannon So … Ms. Rhiannon? You’ve now given the same basic response-- “Don’t patronize us,”-- to comments from loyalists from every other major power. The Empire and Federation loyalists you can maybe safely ignore: both are pretty unabashed about getting up in other people’s business. When you’ve got Mr. Adams piling in for the State, though … maybe sticking to your guns is just hurting your standing, internationally? “Stay out of our business” is kind of the State national motto, but, sentiments and actions relating directly to “Home” aside, I don’t think even the (somewhat rules-based) State is going to be all that enthusiastic about attitudes that result in military incursions into other people’s (your friends’, even) territory to enforce your cultural standards on them. Maybe if you actually seem have all three other major powers agreeing that you were in the wrong … I mean, it’s obvious that it was an important matter to you and your people, but. . . . If that sounds patronizing … um. Sorry? I guess? I could say that I admire your willingness to metaphorically die on such a troublesome hill? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/68 "2018-04-19T13:05:15Z")
I believe I have repeatedly stated I do not think we were _right_ in Colelie. Thus people trying to explain to me why we weren’t is inherently patronizing. Again, my issue is not with the events themselves, it is with how the path that lead to them is discussed: the taking as self-evident the fact that territorial sovereignty trumps claims of blood, calling tribal sentiments uncivilized, dismissing concerns as something that don’t need to be discussed further. I’m also _fine_ with Feds continuing to be arrogant bastards. I am not trying to make them stop, I’m not saying “don’t”. Just trying to explain why it is that we call them so. (With the State and the enemy even more so, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/69 "2018-04-19T13:15:17Z")
It is maybe not self-evident that territorial sovereignty trumps claims of blood. It is evident, though: otherwise we might as well go back to clan wars, and shortly will. Treating “tribe” in its most-traditional sense of a community on the scale of maybe a small collection of villages, it should also be pretty clear that tribal (that is, basically, blood) sentiments are uncivilized. That’s the primordial state of humanity. Civilization exists precisely to let us be … well. Larger than that, without all the time killing each other. The Republic’s managed this, by the way-- you just still call your interplanetary sub-factions “tribes.” You violated another nation’s sovereign space explicitly to try to force the Federation to violate its own laws. Nobody, including you, thinks that was good. Why would this need to be discussed further? Why would you want it to be? Edit: I mean, is it really okay if we view your culture as being basically unstable, aggressive, and driven by a sense of grievance, so long as you can resent us for it and build your grievance higher? It’s probably good for group unity, but. . . . … in the long term it seems like a big gift to the Empire, I guess. Particularly if it gets bad enough that the Federation pulls support, and the Federation’s responsive to its people’s will, so perception is going to matter a little. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/70 "2018-04-19T13:18:37Z")
Well, Ms. Rhiannon, if what that gallentean said is true - and I mean, if the man himself was a Federal citizen, if he committed the crime against another Federal inside Federation… well, it is definitely not international case. If the situation was like ours, if the Federation would occupy one of your planets (like they did with our Caldari Prime) and started murdering native minmatars (like they were attacking Caldari), claiming they are “their citizens” now - that would be already international affair, that should either be solved by CONCORD or start the war (it indeed started the war in YC110 that led to liberation of Caldari Prime from 200 years of Gallente occupation). I have, however, really no intent to blindly believe gallentean words that both this man and his victim were Federal citizens, but I am quite sure that the territory was Federal, thus I have to ask you, were the assailant and victims really Federal people, or that Gallentean just again tries to pervert facts, as he did before? ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/72 "2018-04-19T13:43:24Z")
Were Republic detectives Involved in the investigation that identified Gerne Broteau as the Lone Suspect ? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/73 "2018-04-19T15:41:36Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > were the assailant and victims really Federal people Uh, what? The Ray of Matar, Chief of Sebiestor Tribe, Karin Midular, was definitely not a Federal citizen. I believe, of the other victims, some were Federal citizens and some were Republicans traveling with the Chief. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/74 "2018-04-19T15:43:19Z")
> [@Val\_en\_Thielles](#): > > There are many possible reasons the Federation didn’t choose to go down such a path; perhaps it was the shock of having been hit at its most iconic city. However, chalking it up to an underlying sense of arrogance > [—] > it is arrogant to expect the Federation to immediately put themselves in your shoes and act accordingly Who did that? Again, I am _not_ talking about the events themselves. I am talking about how people _talk_ about them, both about how the Federal decisions were _communicated_ at the time and how people still ignore the obvious causes for the mess five years later. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/515671_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/75 "2018-04-19T15:43:59Z")
Just give it up Else. You know the old saying “There are none so blind as those who would not see”? That applies here. People are refusing to see due to their own biases and personal agendas. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/76 "2018-04-19T16:14:46Z")
That’s definitely possible, Ms. Rella. Are you excepting your own point of view from the ones that might be affected, though? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/77 "2018-04-19T16:24:33Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Uh, what? The Ray of Matar, Chief of Sebiestor Tribe, Karin Midular, was definitely not a Federal citizen. I believe, of the other victims, some were Federal citizens and some were Republicans traveling with the Chief. Ah, then it’s just that gallentean runs his mouth. What is expected. He is predictable like that Rella, etc. Clearly it is international affair and attempt of Gallente monopolize it should be cut at once. They have neither authority, nor trust, nor ability to judge fairly to take that role. ---
**Author:** ![Aradina\_Varren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aradina_varren/32/398702_2.png) [@Aradina\_Varren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aradina_Varren)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/78 "2018-04-19T16:35:55Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > “why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing”. Only “sometimes”? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/79 "2018-04-19T16:58:16Z")
> [@Aradina\_Varren](#): > > Only “sometimes”? Well, most Feds I know are perfectly civilized most of the time. They just have these certain blind spots. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/80 "2018-04-19T17:50:02Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Well, Ms. Rhiannon, if what that gallentean said is true - and I mean, if the man himself was a Federal citizen, if he committed the crime against another Federal inside Federation… well, it is definitely not international case. Diana, he was a Federal citizen who committed crimes against both Federal citizens _and_ representatives of the Republic Government, simultaneously, in Federal space. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/81 "2018-04-19T17:51:43Z")
> [@Synthetic\_Cultist](#): > > Were Republic detectives Involved in the investigation that identified Gerne Broteau as the Lone Suspect ? No. He was apprehended at the scene by the same security forces that let him set up shop with a high-powered weapon in the first place. Clearly, they must have known what they were doing, right? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=5)