# The events in Colelie, and why do the Feds sometimes seem patronizing **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 18, 2018, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424 "2018-04-18T05:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/122 "2018-04-20T00:16:08Z")
> [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > No, I just think if others are to make threats they should at least have the decency to carry them out. I’m curious which bit of “In my opinion” you thought was a threat? Not very Federal of you Mr. Vausienne. Tut tut. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/123 "2018-04-20T00:20:38Z")
Well, sure. The Amarr are sure that exposure to their beliefs and ways will convince you of the rightness of them. The Gallente, much the same thing. The Caldari don’t want their routines disrupted. And we… We have reason to be mistrustful of outsiders coming into our space, you know? Even our inter-Tribal and inter-Clan relationships are stabilized by their boundaries. The Parliamentary government failed, in part, because it didn’t respect our cultural boundaries, and sought to dismantle them at a legal/political level. We want to be left alone. We see the continued efforts by the Amarr to make our captive relatives into ‘Not Matari’ as a massive invasion and intrusion on our culture. Our relatives are part of us. My family is more important than I am. Assisting those of us who are captive, who are enslaved… believe me, Mizhara’s insistence that saving them is worth all of _our_ lives… it’s not uniquely hers, and many of us who’ve opposed that view have opposed it only because we don’t to doom others in the process. @Kalaratiri isn’t wrong, though. There are those who’ll take the time to explain… but I think your preferred method of understanding, what works best for you, is immersion, and while you might get a bit of the _form_ of what it means to be Matari, or Sebiestor, from those explanations… it still won’t be fast, and to really _understand_… yeah. Years. > [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > No, I just think if others are to make threats they should at least have the decency to carry them out. ‘I think they should have gotten more money’ is not ‘so I am going to give them more money’. Saying she thinks the Federation did not see nearly the scale of response it might have seen doesn’t mean she’s offering to _show_ you that response. But you chose to be belligerent, rather than get clarification, didn’t you? You _chose_ to see a threat where one wasn’t offered, and to respond with—in that context—assurances of violence all your own. Think about that, as you accuse _us_ of being violent and savage. ---
**Author:** ![Rafal\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rafal_vausienne/32/64411_2.png) [@Rafal\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rafal_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/124 "2018-04-20T00:23:06Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > But you chose to be belligerent, rather than get clarification, didn’t you? You chose to see a threat where one wasn’t offered, and to respond with—in that context—assurances of violence all your own. Think about that, as you accuse us of being violent and savage. Of course I got clarification – that it was an impotent threat with no ability to carry through. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/125 "2018-04-20T00:24:00Z")
> [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > that it was an impotent threat with no ability to carry through. It wasn’t a threat in the first place you moron. ---
**Author:** ![Rafal\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rafal_vausienne/32/64411_2.png) [@Rafal\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rafal_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/126 "2018-04-20T00:30:10Z")
Oh, empty commentary then? Got you. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/127 "2018-04-20T00:30:15Z")
Actually, seconded, @Rafal_Vausienne: it wasn’t a threat. A threat, at minimum, hints at a future action or event. This was more like “we should have used titans”: a reflection on the past. It does carry a certain lingering feeling, though. > [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > Oh, empty commentary then? Got you. … wow you’ve fallen way off of what you were hoping for. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/128 "2018-04-20T00:33:24Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > This was more like “we should have used titans”: a reflection on the past. I think it’s less a feeling of “we should have” and more “I’m surprised we didn’t”. For me Colelie is actually a story of restraint in the face of the kind of emotion that burns planets. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/129 "2018-04-20T00:35:15Z")
> [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > Of course I got clarification – that it was an impotent threat with no ability to carry through. No, you got clarification that it _wasn’t a threat at all_. You are quick to judge people as belligerent when no belligerence has been offered. She said the Federation got off easy. It could have been far worse. The bloodshed on both sides could have been far costlier. And then there’s the bigger picture: As wrong as that would have been the Republic, irrational and driven by grief and pain _already_ as we were, would not have felt the loss any more deeply. Our opposition—the Empire—was already trying to play the role of ‘good guys’ under Doriam and Jamyl I. To launch an aggressive war then would have undermined everything they were working toward. It would have _instantly_ closed the rift the Ray’s assassination had caused, and the State likely would _not_ have supported an attack. So they wouldn’t have attacked. The Empire had everything to gain by sitting back and waiting. But what of the State? The State, remember, that was _already planning the reclamation of Caldari Prime_. Federal forces engaging Matari forces on a much, much larger scale? The smart strategic move is to aid the enemy of your enemy: _support_ the Matari. Had there been a larger conflict borne of that incident, the State could have easily opened a second front. Between the two, the Republic and the State could have inflicted _crippling_ losses to the Federal fleet. Yes, the bulk of the Republic Fleet would have been lost as well, but it’s not like we’re not used to fighting back with pointed sticks when that’s all we have. The Gallente fleet, though, would have been savaged. And through it all, the Golden Fleet, the expansionist, aggressive, _enslaving_ culture that stopped its insatiable devouring of the cluster _only_ because it was matched by the Federation’s military power… would not have lost a ship. Would have been _building more_. Play it out. What’s the endgame for the Federation in that scenario? **Everyone** got off easy. That’s not a threat. It’s an observation. That you choose to _see_ a threat speaks only poorly _of you_. ---
**Author:** ![Rafal\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rafal_vausienne/32/64411_2.png) [@Rafal\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rafal_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/130 "2018-04-20T00:35:26Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > A threat, at minimum, hints at a future action or event. This was more like “we should have used titans”: a reflection on the past. Oh right, so a desire to inflict even more damage, violence, and death of Federal personnel at Colelie in prosecuting an action other Republic commentators have stated was a terrible idea to begin with? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/131 "2018-04-20T00:36:57Z")
Informal advisory to State and Imperial diplomatic corps: it appears that, to avoid diplomatic incident escalating to possible war, it may be desirable to deal with high-ranking Matari exclusively on Republican sovereign soil. . . . ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/132 "2018-04-20T00:37:34Z")
Or at the very least make damn sure no one kills them. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/133 "2018-04-20T00:38:37Z")
I think, Aria, the danger is less on State and Imperial territory. We don’t _trust_ them. The sense of betrayal wouldn’t be there. We _trusted_ the Federation. Past tense. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/134 "2018-04-20T00:38:45Z")
> [@Rafal\_Vausienne](#): > > Oh right, so a desire to inflict even more damage, violence, and death of Federal personnel at Colelie in prosecuting an action other Republic commentators have stated was a terrible idea to begin with? Or rather a wish that they had. Idle, but illustrating a lot of feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/135 "2018-04-20T00:39:57Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Or rather a wish that they had. Or simply a statement that she’d _expected_ more force to be used, and an observation that far more force _could_ have been used. I can say ‘huh, I’m kinda surprised we only dropped 2 titans on that gang instead of 60’ without saying ‘I wish we’d dropped all 60’. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/136 "2018-04-20T00:41:44Z")
Might be. “Got off easy” is a little loaded as far as what’s deserved as well as what’s likely, though. Care to clarify, Kala? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/137 "2018-04-20T00:42:50Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Care to clarify, Kala? 👏 (And yes, I’m fully aware that now **I’m** being pretty patronizing. It’s a joke, I promise. Nothing more.) ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/138 "2018-04-20T00:45:09Z")
Well, there’s also the point that Kala basically verified exactly what I was making concerned noises about, Arrendis. The clarification here seems to be that while Ms. Rhiannon might not have meant what I was seeing in her words, I wasn’t exactly just speaking from pure prejudice. Only, Kala seems more willing to own it. Proud of it, actually. Which is scary from a diplomatic angle, but also really, really interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/139 "2018-04-20T00:47:11Z")
Little of column A, little of column B. Arrendis is right in thinking that “Got off easy” applies to a surprising _lack_ of force deployed. At the time however, I would also certainly have supported the use of more and bigger guns. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/140 "2018-04-20T00:47:36Z")
Okay. Thanks, Kala. ---
**Author:** ![Rafal\_Vausienne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rafal_vausienne/32/64411_2.png) [@Rafal\_Vausienne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rafal_Vausienne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2018, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424/141 "2018-04-20T00:47:49Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, you got clarification that it wasn’t a threat at all. You are quick to judge people as belligerent when no belligerence has been offered. I am quick to judge belligerence, because as recent history has shown at Luminaire, at Ratilose, and at Colelie, it is others who have displayed a willingness for belligerency resulting in attacks on the Federal homeland and the deaths of Federal citizens by the armed forces of foreign powers. The era of diplomacy and rapprochement on the part of the Federation should be considered over. That while it remains an ideal, it is an ideal that cannot currently be met insofar as the Empire, State, and Republic continue to harbour hostile intentions as regards the Federation. The point of Us or Them was passed long ago, and while it was not the Federation that crossed that threshold, the Federation has to recognize the reality that it cannot truly live in peace with its neighbours. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-events-in-colelie-and-why-do-the-feds-sometimes-seem-patronizing/70424.md?page=8)