# The Fall of Origin **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633 "2018-04-14T12:20:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/22 "2018-04-14T20:10:52Z")
> [@John\_Onion](#): > > In most circumstances, targets ask for ‘evidence’ in order to gain information on who our client is. The dates and times we communicated with our client are valuable to you to compare with information from your corporate communications. Likewise, even benine conversation can be used in profiling our client, by taking out popular words, speech style and mannerism. You misspelled benign, you clown, blah de blah, this can be used to identify you as some other clown. I accuse you of being Viriel, and this was all some kind of buttocks-above-head publicity stunt. Prove that you’re not who I think you are. If you can. ---
**Author:** ![Stitcher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitcher/32/440654_2.png) [@Stitcher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitcher)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/23 "2018-04-14T20:35:38Z")
> [@John\_Onion](#): > > We understand your desire to determine the authenticity of our statement, in addition to narrowing down the identity of your traitor. Or - and I consider this the far more likely explanation - you’re just lying. Come on, just join in with the “god glorifies in the blah blah blah” crowd. This little display is just sad. ---
**Author:** ![Jev\_North](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jev_north/32/100533_2.png) [@Jev\_North](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jev_North)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/24 "2018-04-14T20:55:27Z")
> [@John\_Onion](#): > > we have this statement to make. What “we?” …the School of Applied Knowledge? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/25 "2018-04-14T21:02:53Z")
The way I hear things, I hear that Outlaw were mobilised against some other target, but were not making any progress vs them, so switched to ALYXP because they saw them as an easier target, so as not to waste the buildup and preparatory work that they’d done. The narrative being created that it was an inside job is an attempt by someone to save face. Which would make John Onion (what a daft name) not just a liar, but also, an _insignificant_ liar. Lol. ---
**Author:** ![Miyoshi\_Akachi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miyoshi_akachi/32/412561_2.png) [@Miyoshi\_Akachi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miyoshi_Akachi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/26 "2018-04-14T21:57:16Z")
Origin had fallen, that’s true! But Alexylva Paradox isn’t going to die today! We don’t care whatever certain people say about spies or what else; we just don’t care! We know we were loyal to each others and we fought and did our best. It wasn’t enough but we aren’t stopping here. If you hoped to get Alexylva Paradox out of commission, no way! We have learned, we will rebuild, better and stronger! ---
**Author:** ![Jaret\_Victorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jaret_victorian/32/42951_2.png) [@Jaret\_Victorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jaret_Victorian)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/27 "2018-04-14T21:58:32Z")
That’s the spirit! ---
**Author:** ![Streya\_Jormagdnir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/streya_jormagdnir/32/227496_2.png) [@Streya\_Jormagdnir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Streya_Jormagdnir)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/28 "2018-04-15T05:49:22Z")
Exactly this! They can take our structures and space, but they’ll never be able to steal our spirit! ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/29 "2018-04-15T05:49:38Z")
Oh, gods, I’m so sorry. @Stitcher: Feel free to send a private line anytime if you need anything I could conceivably provide, be it a concrete resource or just someone outside of the mess to vent on. ---
**Author:** ![Tifida](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tifida/32/25690_2.png) [@Tifida](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tifida)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/31 "2018-04-15T10:46:30Z")
Hello all. So Origin for me and my alliance will be a idealogic target. We always back if the Eviction was fail in October 2016. And then we leave system i am told your corp mate we are back very soon. So why that eviction is happen. [https://zkillboard.com/related/31000546/201610091800/](https://zkillboard.com/related/31000546/201610091800/) And you lose 1 + Year and not prepare for this attack. That bad. POS Party have a good try, but again fail. So thx for that content and for you not give up - Respect. o7. we may talk for you may Reborn Origin. So if you want talk about it just convo me in game. Fly safe o7 Tifida - CEO Outlaws. ---
**Author:** ![Jev\_North](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jev_north/32/100533_2.png) [@Jev\_North](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jev_North)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/32 "2018-04-15T11:00:14Z")
See, that’s what that looks like. ---
**Author:** ![Stitcher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitcher/32/440654_2.png) [@Stitcher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitcher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/33 "2018-04-15T12:16:50Z")
> [@Tifida](#): > > 1 + Year and not prepare for this attack. That bad. > > […] > > thx for that content and for you not give up - Respect. o7 And respect to you, you won this battle fair and square. You’re right, we didn’t prepare and we paid for it. Thank you for the lesson: We intend to learn it well. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/34 "2018-04-15T13:30:13Z")
Also, as capsuleers, our abilities are a little circumscribed in places. Orbital bombardment: not actually a thing, and hasn’t been since clone soldiers’ involvement in the faction war zones ended. I can think of ways you could probably really cause trouble for planetsiders, but, if we could scour planets clean, the more fought-over regions of nullsec might not have much surviving planetary … anything. I’m sorry we couldn’t get in to save your home, Verin. We were so, so terribly close, but we just couldn’t quite make it in time. I’m so sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Dgoni1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dgoni1/32/66610_2.png) [@Dgoni1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dgoni1)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/35 "2018-04-15T13:47:09Z")
Next time, dude) We’ll be glad to meet you in space! o7 ---
**Author:** ![Stitcher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitcher/32/440654_2.png) [@Stitcher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitcher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/36 "2018-04-15T14:16:06Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I’m sorry we couldn’t get in to save your home, Verin. We were so, so terribly close, but we just couldn’t quite make it in time. > > I’m so sorry. The effort alone absolves you of needing to apologise. With your help, we managed to turn a hopeless situation into a fighting chance: I call that a win, even if it wasn’t a victory. Having a home is nice. But there’s joy to be found in making a new one, too, so in a strange way I’m almost _glad_ this happened. There are things to do in my future, something to focus my energy on. I plan to enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/37 "2018-04-15T14:17:57Z")
Your positivity under the circumstances is … pretty inspiring, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Stitcher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stitcher/32/440654_2.png) [@Stitcher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Stitcher)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/38 "2018-04-15T14:26:44Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Your positivity under the circumstances is … pretty inspiring, actually. You can blame my Training Instructor from State Basic for that, Technical Sergeant Hakasken. I actually learned to _enjoy_ it when he yelled at me for screwing up. It meant he still had faith in me and knew I could do better: if he’d just rolled his eyes, quietly called me a loser and walked away (as he did with a few true dropouts) then I’d have known he thought I was irredeemable. Some lessons stick across lifetimes, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Miyoshi\_Akachi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miyoshi_akachi/32/412561_2.png) [@Miyoshi\_Akachi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miyoshi_Akachi)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/39 "2018-04-15T17:52:32Z")
Honestly, I don’t feel like you’re a good party to state that we didn’t prepare for this attack. We prepared what we could in the time and with the people we had. It wasn’t enough but I refuse to be accused to have not prepared for it at all. And you know? When I’ll be back in Origin it’ll be on my own legs. ---
**Author:** ![Jaret\_Victorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jaret_victorian/32/42951_2.png) [@Jaret\_Victorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jaret_Victorian)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/40 "2018-04-15T18:41:40Z")
Mm! @Stitcher I may be able to assist in negotiations if you plan any. Breach the “language barrier”, so to say. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/41 "2018-04-15T18:52:14Z")
It’s a good thought, Mr. Victorian, but I’m not sure there’s any misunderstanding here as such. ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633/42 "2018-04-15T22:33:19Z")
> [@Miyoshi\_Akachi](#): > > Honestly, I don’t feel like you’re a good party to state that we didn’t prepare for this attack. We prepared what we could in the time and with the people we had. It wasn’t enough but I refuse to be accused to have not prepared for it at all. “Prepared for” and “reacted to” are very different things. While I understand emotions are likely running high right now, being rude to the CEO of the group that just summarily evicted you in 48 hours, _especially_ after they compliment you for your fighting spirit and offer you the potential of help in the future, seems rather foolhardy. I’d also like to add my thoughts on Origin and what lessons can be taken from it. This may not be particularly welcome to all pilots involved, but I have what I feel good reason to do so, and no particular reason to keep it secret any more. Starting in November of last year, I (really) was approached by a third party who wished to see Origin burned to the bedrock. Their offer was generous enough for me to consider it, and by mid-December Origin had been seeded by multiple Hard Knocks scouts and associates. A [dossier](https://docs.google.com/document/d/13-s-TLLsge7RehvMV31SFADk5tYsNxElzYwynIdZqsE/edit#) was created to collect intel on Origin and its inhabitants. A brief look over this information will leave several glaring weaknesses immediately obvious to the more combat experienced reader. As it turned out, the eviction never took place. Hard Knocks’ growing involvement in the destruction of the DCU coalition and the burning of Cobalt Edge left many of our pilots feeling we had bigger concerns than taking a contract at this point. The scouts and Deep Space Transport carrying the beachhead Astrahus were withdrawn from Origin on March 22nd. To my surprise (and no small amount of ironic amusement) an eviction ended up taking place anyway exactly three weeks later. The forces involved were overwhelming and professional in their execution, and so Origin fell. This next part of the post is not specifically aimed at the members of Alexylva Paradox, but does use them as an example. My hope is that they do not see this as an attack on their character, but rather take it on board as a few of the lessons to be learned. I also hope that any readers who are less knowledgeable about how war is fought in Anoikis may find this useful. There were three major weaknesses in Origin’s defenses: 1. A large, but mostly inactive membership 2. Only a single online moonblocker 3. A reliance on allies to aid with defense I feel confident in my assessment that had ALXVP sought to fix any of these weaknesses they would have had greatly increased chances of success. The first and most basic line of defence in a wormhole system is the so called “moonblocker” Starbases. By anchoring these in the orbits of the system’s moons, the inhabitants can prevent any would-be invaders from setting up a Starbase of their own to base from. This is important, because unlike the much larger Upwell structures, a Starbase can be anchored and fully operational in less than an hour. ALXVP had half-completed this job, but made the mistake of mostly anchoring Small Amarr towers and leaving them offline. This left them vulnerable and easily destroyed to make way for an invader’s replacement. The remaining two entries in the list are heavily interlinked. There is no better defense than having a membership who actively live and operate in their wormhole. As the list at the bottom of the dossier shows, in three-and-a-bit months of observation only fifteen members of ALXVP were identified as “active”. Fifteen capsuleers out of a potential ninety-four. Of those fifteen, two left the corp part-way through the observation period. To any watching party, this simply screams profitable target full of vulnerable assets. Any group wishing to be able to anchor and defend a Fortizar must be prepared and capable of doing so on their own strength. This leads nicely into the remaining point. I recognise that ALXVP’s calling of allies in this case is perfectly justified (and sensible) given the numbers arrayed against them, but an Anoikis corp must _never_ rely on having allies as their main strategy. A competent invading force will have such total control of the incoming connections that allies are simply never given the opportunity to arrive. Despite planning fairly extensively on how best to kill you all, I do wish you the best for the future. Hopefully this will be an rejuvenating process for Alexylva Paradox; it would be a shame to see your flame go out forever. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fall-of-origin/69633.md?page=3)