# The Fight Against Cheating in EVE Online **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [March 20, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713 "2020-03-20T10:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/105 "2020-03-21T14:25:44Z")
You can watch them on the news - they are CCPs best source of publicity now that nullsec conflict is small potatoes. > **[The victim of EVE Online's $5,000 gank says he's struggling with the aftermath](https://www.pcgamer.com/the-victim-of-eve-onlines-dollar5000-gank-says-hes-struggling-with-the-aftermath/)** > > We talk to the victim and assassins of EVE Online's recent, exorbitantly expensive kill. ---
**Author:** ![CowRocket\_Void](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowrocket_void/32/189525_2.png) [@CowRocket\_Void](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowRocket_Void)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/106 "2020-03-21T15:24:24Z")
> [@ISD\_Sakimura](#): > > No, CCP is still Icelandic. Yes, shareholder is Korean. When CCP was bought Pearl Abyss said that CCP would continue as independent as they were before Just like a marriage… **"I can do anything I want!!!** _as long as it’s OK with my wife_" ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/107 "2020-03-21T15:29:50Z")
Dog, am I not being clear? Let me spell it out I guess. - Most botters probably plex their accounts\*. Their plex consumption probably does indirectly drive sales of plex by increasing it’s sell value, but they aren’t putting money directly into CCP’s pocket. - Botters/Cheaters cause players to stop playing, which costs CCP a significant amount of paying customers - Note that one single botter/cheater can sour the game for multiple players - This is a PvP centric game; so players are far less tolerant of botters and cheaters here than they might be a PvE game where they have a smaller effect on player experiences and outcomes - Real players help create a social critical mass -they bring friends in and help keep existing players playing - CCP loses additional revenue because of the players that chose to buy isk from the RMT’ers instead of CCP. - Thus, even though botters are buying plex through the in-game market, this is significantly overshadowed by a loss of cash-paying, real players that leave because of them and a by loss of direct plex sales. - Thus, CCP is financially incentivized to get rid of botters. And judging by the chart, this appears to be the case. Unless they are straight up lying to us, they have put some serious effort into cracking down on botting. I don’t know how you seem so convinced that CCP wants botters. I know that the interests of the devs don’t always align with the interests of the players, but I’d bet money that this is a case where they do align. \*Note: Yeah, why would they pay actual money when they can just have a bot run for 15 hours or so? I mean, some cheating players might -who knows. But RMT organizations who are trying to make as much real world money as possible definitely wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/108 "2020-03-21T16:03:42Z")
> [@Yersynia\_Pestis](#): > > CCP is now a korean company. CCP is an independent subsidiary of a Korean company. > [@Yersynia\_Pestis](#): > > According to my (game-)experience in these countries has a good game crowded servers. > No matter how much bots are on. The majority of Eve’s playerbase isn’t korean. And botting remains one of the playerbase’s highest priorities. Even if Koreans were tolerant of botting, CCP would need at least enough new Korean players coming in to replace the real players being lost for CCP stop caring about botting. Plus, there’s the fact that the biggest botters in the game are RMT’ers, which steal revenue from CCP. > [@Yersynia\_Pestis](#): > > I can hear your words, but I’m lack of belief Um, did you see the graph? Do you think that they are lying to our faces? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/109 "2020-03-21T16:09:40Z")
Yeah, that’s an anecdote. Just because it’s happened once, that doesn’t mean that it will always happen, or that it will happen in this particular case. I don’t understand how exactly people think that botters are profitable for CCP. In fact, I guarantee you that they’re costing them money. But, rather than regurgitate my post to MB Photographer, I’ll just [direct you to it](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/107). ---
**Author:** ![Ember\_Fireheart](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ember_fireheart/32/278556_2.png) [@Ember\_Fireheart](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ember_Fireheart)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/110 "2020-03-21T23:22:10Z")
I wonder how many market bot’s got completely #$%#ed after the market order change fees 😛 they must have gone bankrupt quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/111 "2020-03-21T23:36:53Z")
Seems like this may be a bit outlandish, but CCP have you ever considered not making activities easy to bot in the first place? Are there any pve encounters / activity that aren’t 100% scripted and established? Maybe a dash of randomness would go a long way? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/112 "2020-03-21T23:40:49Z")
There are plenty of places in Eve that have randomness. Players learn to overcome the randomness, through trial-and-error (and bling). ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/113 "2020-03-21T23:46:42Z")
> [@Reys\_Polluxi](#): > > Any chance we’ll be taking a look at folks who gank other folks in hi-sec? No. It’s working as intended, and has been for the past 17 years… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Frohike](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/john_frohike/32/255945_2.png) [@John\_Frohike](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/John_Frohike)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/114 "2020-03-21T23:56:44Z")
Most players live in highsec. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/115 "2020-03-21T23:56:44Z")
Been trying for many years (with numerous others) to have CCP change mission and sites; we ALWAYS got push back that CCP and the CSM thought that players didn’t want randomness or variety. Whether discussions on the boards, round tables and chat channels, or in person, we always got the reply that no one wanted to add any variables in sites or missions. We argued that it would help against botting and that even got shot down. It appears that many of the voices they were listening to were botters,RMTers, and industry strength multiboxers. The same people who benefitted the most from doing the same thing over and over again, usually with illegal help. Stop designing the game to be played via script and watch many of the remaining ones leave. Doubt it will happen, but it sure would be nice to add some variables. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/116 "2020-03-22T00:08:01Z")
But… but… how will I watch Netflix near undisturbed if I have to worry about variables being thrown into my pve content??? Also serious question, how do I feed my family if botting is made more difficult??? ---
**Author:** ![Sensei\_Meelia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sensei_meelia/32/187190_2.png) [@Sensei\_Meelia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sensei_Meelia)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/117 "2020-03-22T00:12:54Z")
> [@ISD\_Sakimura](#): > > The bots that were present were banned; a few days later new bots had replaced them… Would it not be simpler to punish the whole corp/ally since they allow botting in the first place? Deny access to their own structures for 7 days, would go down well (or any structure) ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/118 "2020-03-22T00:37:42Z")
I will gladly admit I have no proof of anything. I just putting together the back stories I’ve heard over the years. We have a bot problem. I tried bot’s way back when. CCP said we will ban all bots so I stopped. I had worked to long and to hard to take any chance of losing my accounts. With that said, all I can conclude is that CCP is selective about who it bans. As many people in the forums have speculated, the large alliances have the cash input to control the game. “Apparently” there are many ways for CCP to address the bottling problem from their end, yet fail to do so. Meh… Edit; BTW, were down to 23k on a Saturday night… ---
**Author:** ![Kenneth\_Endashi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenneth_endashi/32/256217_2.png) [@Kenneth\_Endashi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenneth_Endashi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/119 "2020-03-22T00:42:46Z")
make players fill out a captcha at the end of the mission ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/120 "2020-03-22T02:20:57Z")
The game went from to ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/121 "2020-03-22T02:45:11Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > we ALWAYS got push back that CCP and the CSM thought that players didn’t want randomness or variety I can honestly confirm that players as a whole hate challenging and unpredictable PvE content. I did some dev work on a NWN PW. And some of the work I did was around turning it into less of a mindless farm, randomising things a bit. People raged. They hated not knowing the exact stats of every NPC they farmed, they hated not knowing if one fireball was enough. EVE players count missile volleys, they know exact dps from their enemies, they set their tank to just enough to maximise dps therefore maximise income. They also hate random and unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![Myrielle\_GER](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/myrielle_ger/32/193290_2.png) [@Myrielle\_GER](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Myrielle_GER)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/122 "2020-03-22T08:28:53Z")
Send soooo many Bots to CCP Security, with proof videos and all the infos. But CCP not banned them. CCP loves Bots, because they pay for the game…thats it. ---
**Author:** ![Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abdullah-sekir-bashka/32/182573_2.png) [@Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abdullah-Sekir-Bashka)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/123 "2020-03-22T13:17:33Z")
Naund? Hauptsache ich verstehe es ohne eines Übersetzers. 🙂 Ich vermute auch Polen würden die Hälfte von Russisch verstehen, besonders nach paar alks intus. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/124 "2020-03-22T14:03:22Z")
🔴 > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > we ALWAYS got push back that CCP and the CSM thought that players didn’t want randomness or variety. Only unintelligent people say that something can’t have variety and be predictable. Just because something is predictable does not mean that it cannot pose unusual challenges. Take missions for example: There are some missions that have additional waves of enemies or an additional faction NPC on a random chance. Most of these missions are always the same but some give you an additional challenge. Other missions have variety in the wave composition that may or may not pose an additional challenge. Missions like Dread Pirate Scarlet even reward you for prioritizing particular NPCs to shorten the overall mission, and if you fail you have to go the long way. Relic and Data sites have the always same container layout but their content is not the same. This can lead to frustrating experiences where a relic site gives barely 5M and satisfying occasions where you get 200M. The layout is always the same so that you know how to run efficiently from container to container without getting stuck in LCOs, but the rewards are not predictable. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > we always got the reply that no one wanted to add any variables in sites or missions. We argued that it would help against botting and that even got shot down. See, you and the people you probably talked to do not even know what they talk about. Randomness in a sensible way already exists and it could be expanded upon in a sensible way. The random garbage that CCP came up with with Triglavians, however, is not such a sensible way. The reason why you get pushback and shot down is simply because your suggestions are bad and because you do not know what you are talking about. Not to mention that “making the game harder for players just to fight bots” is one of the worst development approaches in the industry. Blackout showed it, the market changes show it, many other developments into that direction have shown and will show it in the future. Suggestions from people who suggest this kind of development practice deserve to be shot down. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713.md?page=7)