# The Fight Against Cheating in EVE Online **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** official, devblog\ **Created:** [March 20, 2020, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713 "2020-03-20T10:14:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/125 "2020-03-22T14:45:24Z")
Wow. You conflated several issues here. Randomizing loot drops doesn’t make a game more challenging or fun; it certainly doesn’t effect bots. Additional waves of the same type of enemy doesn’t make things more challenging,fun, or more difficult for a script to run. Your demand that everything be MIN/MAX for your enjoyment is often considered the bane of any RPG game, whether MMO or table top. Many of us are tired of people who just want to F1, script, multibox, or any mindless gameplay that allows them to min/max and not actually be intelligently agile enough to change on the fly. Claiming any suggested change to the current norm as “bad”, “unintelligent”, “not knowing what you talk about”, and other put downs just because it’s different than how you play the game indicates far more about you than those suggesting intelligent change. That is the key, intelligent change and not the current CCP habit of throwing things at a wall and seeing what sticks. You find enjoyment from min/maxing a system and deriving the most payment out of a system. That’s fine if you like that, but that is your opinion. It’s not a bad, unintelligent, or ignorant one; just different than some other people. Many of us think differently and would like CCP to intelligently explore reasonable expansion/change in a new direction or at least in a better way than they are currently doing. Hurling unsubstantiated insults at those with differing opinions doesn’t aid in any discussion. ---
**Author:** ![StinGer\_ShoGuN](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stinger_shogun/32/429129_2.png) [@StinGer\_ShoGuN](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/StinGer_ShoGuN)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/126 "2020-03-22T14:59:07Z")
I’ve just seen the figures and was curious about the Project Discovery botting. Have you analysed the results of such botting ? Because if the results are correct, it may be interesting to look at how it’s done. My understanding from Project Discovery is that we examine data that are “suspect” to prior algorithms detection (by suspect, I mean that it can’t clearly determine the result). So if the bot achieve a correct success ratio, it may be worth contacting the research team and communicate them the algorithm so that they can update their AI. There’s good, even in evil ! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/127 "2020-03-22T16:25:59Z")
🔴 > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Many of us are tired of people Likewise, I am tired of people who have no idea what they are talking about and just want their enjoyment shoved down my throat. Anything that you seem to like and that has been introduced by CCP so far has not been fun in any way imaginable compared to anything that exists from before. Trigs are not fun, Abyss is not fun. Resource Wars are not fun, Mining NPC are not fun, Invasions are not fun. All these things are more random, less predictable and pose a much greater threat and challenge to players. Nothing of that is fun. These things only cause issues, frustration, wasted time due to lack of appropriate rewards and so on. Nothing the people who want more randomness and unpredictability have suggested was an intelligent change. If you think that “hurling unsubstantiated insults” does not aid the discussion, you should stop trying to discuss something that is inherently bad. I am not exactly thrilled having to tell people over and over how terrible the things are they dream off in the name of gods Randomness and Unpredictability. Alternatively: Come up with something that is fun and goes more into the kind of randomness that you want. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > You conflated several issues here. Randomizing loot drops doesn’t make a game more challenging or fun You see, that is the issue with people like you. Randomized loot drops make things more fun. Relic sites are not necessarily the best example but the system behind it is. There are some missions where you have the chance for a special NPC to spawn that can greatly improve your rewards if you are lucky with a loot drop. You want to run this mission just for the chance of seeing this NPC and for the loot. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Additional waves of the same type of enemy doesn’t make things more challenging,fun, or more difficult for a script to run. That is another issue with your point of view. Just because something is easy to run with a script does not mean it’s easy for a player. You want to make things harder for scripts and that is your only maxim. An example of what I think is more intelligent design and sensibly challenging: Depending on the ship you use, the additional waves or untimely triggered waves in The Assault (a very old mission) can and will put your tank and cap management to the test. The rewards of this mission (nearly 100M in tags), however, are worth the risk and additional challenge. Just because something is old, easy to run by a script or with little variation does not mean it has no challenges. > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > Your demand that everything be MIN/MAX for your enjoyment is often considered the bane of any RPG game, whether MMO or table top. I do not demand anything like Min/Maxing. I demand to have fun. You, on the other hand, refuse to accept that activities you perceive as static, less variable than a random numbers generator, are not fun because they are easy to bot/script. ---
**Author:** ![Rexxar\_Santaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rexxar_santaro/32/420075_2.png) [@Rexxar\_Santaro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rexxar_Santaro)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/128 "2020-03-22T16:40:40Z")
> [@Sheldon\_d\_Albion](#): > > I can tell you with 100M you won’t get the marshall BPC … > More like 700-800M isks in studying the data. > There are still counter-method implemented in PD , often I got the message " you are too quick" and after 10 levels you can’t progress for the day anymore. The “ISK Faucet and Botting” diagram is very vague. In my opinion, quantity of “botting ISK” is up to two times more. The number of 100M ISK is the current PD’s botting ISK value, after all anti-botting actions. Just look like 7-8 months ago, during the last summer, PD botting had like 5-10B ISK. Before that, the botting was even more tremendous. The task was to farm the BPC in a long run period. As diagram states, **it’s a daily** ISK Faucet from Botters. And if I’m understanding it correct, during the last summer, Combat SOV botters had a daily tick of 250B ISK - Bam (250B ISK), Bam (250B ISK), Bam (250B ISK), Bam (250B ISK)… Check the MER of January 2020 for the total ISK & Faucets - it was 44.5T ISK for Bounties. Therefore, just compare total Bounty ISK Faucets with Combat botting Faucets: Monthly: minF = 250B \* 30 = 7.5T ISK, maxF = minF \* 2 = 15T ISK. A portion of botting ISK from total Bounty per month: Kmin = 7.5/44.5 \* 100% = 17%, Kmax = 15/44.5 \* 100% = 34%. The current ratio is: Kc = 1.5/44.5 \* 100% = 3.4%. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/129 "2020-03-22T16:51:49Z")
Again, you seem to want to claim something I have never wanted or asked for. I have not asked for Trigs or the Abyss. I hate the current miner NPC routine and mechanics (although I don’t mine). I was very vocal in saying RW was a waste of time and effort. I don’t do Sansha Invasions and rarely Trig ones; it’s not part of any routine or significant amount of my gameplay. All the things you claim I wanted or advocated for, is NOT true. Please quit claiming that any of those things you mentioned was either advocated by me or what I was talking about. Insted, I was advocating that the use of simply scripted missions and sites with little variation promoted bots and afk behavior. Something this thread was about. Making it so that a player had to fit an Omni tank occasionally, not always, or a deviation that required on the fly thinking or pre planning would be great. I don’t always want a :if I do x, then either y or z will happen. Sometimes I would like a little variation; note the use of “sometimes”. That EVE Survival is still very accurate after over a decade of little change underlines some of the problem. Not that EVE Survival exists or is used by some players, but that the game has had a significant part of it remain stagnant for year after year. That helps afk and botting behavior. You keep telling me what I am thinking and the reason behind it and claiming I’m wrong because I am different than how you play the game. That I have been advocating for things you hate. All of that is wrong. It appears, however, that you have already decided to place me in some category and dismiss anything discussed in a reasonable,civil manner. Unfortunate, but perhaps to be expected in here.I am not your enemy in this issue, merely stating that CCP’s recent gameplay changes have not always been effective or healthy for EVE, something I think you agree about. Let us leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/130 "2020-03-22T18:04:33Z")
🔴 > [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > merely stating that CCP’s recent gameplay changes have not always been effective or healthy for EVE, something I think you agree about. That we can definitely agree on. The reason why I come across rather aggravating when topics like these come up is that all these changes and things I mentioned above were introduced in the spirit of turning everything less predictable, more random. What you describe in the second paragraph would go into the direction of, for example, “agent tells you what to do in the mission but tells you that countering NPC could be any of the pirates”? That would indeed be a sensible and intelligent direction for more randomness that one can work with in a constructive way. Would, for instance, go well with missions appearing around dynamically spawning events like Incursions, Invasions, other events. That is indeed the kind of randomness I would like to see. Sadly, I have not seen anyone suggesting or going into that direction with suggestions yet. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/131 "2020-03-22T20:52:39Z")
You train it to recognise the test samples, which are a limited set of images and always the same point on tue sample graph, spam no result and once in a while pretend to see a transit. You are only scored on the test samples. ---
**Author:** ![Wade\_Deadpool\_Willson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wade_deadpool_willson/32/169216_2.png) [@Wade\_Deadpool\_Willson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wade_Deadpool_Willson)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/132 "2020-03-22T21:46:32Z")
Because it was a CCP bot. 99% of discovered bots are triglavians, the mentioned percentage is as accurate as CCP findings on bot. The blog is pure hoby horse crap same as big foot that lives in Alaska. The only real ■■■■■■■ thing in that game is red dot period. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/133 "2020-03-23T02:45:51Z")
Yeah stop spamming stupid rumours now. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Rattati](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_rattati/32/248386_2.png) [@CCP\_Rattati](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Rattati)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/134 "2020-03-23T09:41:46Z")
this is the ISK faucet graph. We have other graphs and detection methods, that include mining. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Rattati](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_rattati/32/248386_2.png) [@CCP\_Rattati](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Rattati)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/135 "2020-03-23T09:48:13Z")
We also monitor those activities, even if they are not in this particular graph. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Rattati](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_rattati/32/248386_2.png) [@CCP\_Rattati](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Rattati)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/136 "2020-03-23T09:51:13Z")
There is no doubt that the impact of bots in the Market is invisible to most players and extremely harmful to normal traders. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Rattati](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_rattati/32/248386_2.png) [@CCP\_Rattati](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Rattati)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/137 "2020-03-23T09:52:56Z")
We just chose to show a single graph, both FW (LP income) and mining (Ore income) are monitored. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Rattati](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_rattati/32/248386_2.png) [@CCP\_Rattati](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Rattati)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/138 "2020-03-23T09:56:32Z")
Pretty much spot on with every point of your analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/139 "2020-03-23T12:05:02Z")
Will you share the graphs about the impact of the market changes on bots and real players? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/140 "2020-03-23T15:37:39Z")
The bots ganking people in hisec are called npc’s 😁 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/141 "2020-03-23T20:50:49Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I don’t know how you seem so convinced that CCP wants botters. Please quote me where I say that. @CCP_Rattati So you are telling me that there is no software, no game mechanic that CCP can employ to stop botting? That seems to be what you are implying. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvia\_Kildare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sylvia_kildare/32/416948_2.png) [@Sylvia\_Kildare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sylvia_Kildare)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2020, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/142 "2020-03-24T15:49:37Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > No of course not, it is just disheartening that first you must destroy a game to make any cheaters or botters give up since that is the only option CCP has left on the table. Much as we must damage our capitalistic societies in order to make covid-19 give up. I think the pain’s more worth it IRL than it is in EVE, personally, but I do see the value… but yeah, it is a shame/disheartening. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/144 "2020-03-25T00:28:23Z")
How much time are you prepared to spend locked at home attempting to “slow it down”? ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Olacar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/busy_olacar/32/190178_2.png) [@Busy\_Olacar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Busy_Olacar)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2020, 2:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713/146 "2020-03-25T02:02:24Z")
Damn thought i would come back and check the forums and to my suprise eve is still alive despite all the 1000s of posts of ppl saying they quitting hahaaha. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-fight-against-cheating-in-eve-online/226713.md?page=8)