# The gate to Sivala **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [February 27, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466 "2022-02-27T08:18:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gallente\_Holostar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gallente_holostar/32/289591_2.png) [@Gallente\_Holostar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gallente_Holostar)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/142 "2022-03-02T06:57:30Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And also this: > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/1/4/5144dd0c545c8b74e1117a4d3d0eb970a5808b93.png) Destiny posted the image before Aiko… does that mean Destiny is the main? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/143 "2022-03-02T06:58:51Z")
> [@Gallente\_Holostar](#): > > does that mean Destiny is the main? I am not Destiny, she just edited her post. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/144 "2022-03-02T06:59:05Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Because the current system in place makes it impractical for a player who prefers solo activities to engage in this sort of gameplay without necessarily scaling up operations to include large-scale collective defense. Being a solo player, it would be impossible for me to defend a structure without invoking costs that are _unreasonably_ excessive. Even though I agree with you that the mechanics should be better as I have detailed already in this thread, I have to say that you are blaming game mechanics here that everyone has to deal with. For someone with trillions you should be able to afford a disposable war HQ. Also you have the consequences of your actions in that you have upset someone enough that they will come after any war HQ that you put down. Is that the mechanics or an opponent that prevents you from war decing, in my opinion it is an opponent. You have trillions, or so you say, so using mercs is definitely an option. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/145 "2022-03-02T07:04:03Z")
I’ll wardec anyone who pays me 10 billion isk. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/146 "2022-03-02T07:07:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > For someone with trillions you should be able to afford a disposable war HQ. Even discarding the money consideration for a moment, losing the war HQ makes your wars go on cooldown for 2 weeks, so that in itself is a significant barrier to conducting wars for someone in my position. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Is that the mechanics or an opponent that prevents you from war decing, in my opinion it is an opponent. It’s the mechanics, because the opponent could be _anyone._ Just a few players can tank, say, an Astrahus, and it’s impossible to use guerrilla tactics in such a case because the fight is so static. Essentially, the only players who wouldn’t be able to siege the war HQ are those who are so weak/incompetent that they wouldn’t be able to defeat me when I’m in a single ship with no range of motion, which is like what, 20-man corporations of 3-month-old high-sec miners? Additionally, the war ally system ensures that any of the organized groups can enter the war for free, and spend a minimum amount of effort to destroy the station for its core. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > You have trillions, or so you say, so using mercs is definitely an option. Would you be willing to pay $500 for a regular bag of chips (crisps?) just because you had 10 million dollars in the bank? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/147 "2022-03-02T07:25:54Z")
Can we maybe get a second thread called The gate to Ikao? Or maybe like The gate to Sivala, Part II: THE OTHER SIDE ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/148 "2022-03-02T07:28:20Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Even discarding the money consideration for a moment, losing the war HQ makes your wars go on cooldown for 2 weeks, so that in itself is a significant barrier to conducting wars for someone in my position. There are that few fish in the sea? Yeah they get two weeks grace but you can still ally in on wars or put down another war HQ and war dec others. Blowing up structures is boring is it not? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > It’s the mechanics, because the opponent could be _anyone._ Just a few players can tank, say, an Astrahus, and it’s impossible to use guerrilla tactics in such a case because the fight is so static. Essentially, the only players who wouldn’t be able to siege the war HQ are those who are so weak/incompetent that they wouldn’t be able to defeat me when I’m in a single ship with no range of motion, which is like what, 20-man corporations of 3-month-old high-sec miners? Additionally, the war ally system ensures that any of the organized groups can enter the war for free, and spend a minimum amount of effort to destroy the station for its core. An Astrahus is a little bit more meaty, but structures are mainly pretty poor in terms of defences. However it is a strategic asset and forces a fight which is why lower level war deccers hate it. I know why you would not war dec my alliance, because we could take down your war HQ obviously if we were of course bothered by the war dec in the first place. However this is in itself an issue for me in that my alliance would not be interested in your challenge even if I was, which I am not. I always thought the core was not needed for hisec and made owning and operating a structure in hisec even more of a dumb idea. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Would you be willing to pay $500 for a regular bag of chips (crisps?) just because you had 10 million dollars in the bank? That is a lame excuse, a structure is not the same as a bag of crisps. With a structure you can declare war against others and it enables certain game play. If you are so rich then the loss of a structure should not matter much, even the two week cooldown is not an issue. Most war deccers I saw who opposed this idea did not like the fact of losing something like this to their enemy. They just wanted to be able to sit around at hubs or in pipes and blap passing ships with no real come back. Those are the mechanics, and while I think that there should be no restrictions on who can be war decced and that there should be up to three war decs possible per entity without a war HQ, I think the war HQ adds a strategic point of weakness that makes wars mean something. Blackflag. can run around claiming that this is no impact and no one attacks their war HQ’s, but they have lost several in the past and it is something that can happen even to them if they war dec something who decides to go for it. You are unwilling to put down a war HQ. My alliance has put down war HQ’s and we have enemies that could go after it. We accept that we could lose it, but the reality is that we have a strategic target in mind when we do wars, the loss of our war HQ against the value of the targets, which is a major difference in our mentality I guess. So if you want to go to war with my alliance, you will have to use a war HQ, that is your decision to make. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/149 "2022-03-02T07:31:40Z")
I see @Dracvlad is still ignoring this……HARD ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/150 "2022-03-02T07:32:09Z")
On the contrary, I am making the point that it is lame. Perhaps you might want to think about whether mining and exploration gives you enough knowledge about the game to make such comments, your experience is so limited. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/151 "2022-03-02T07:34:45Z")
That makes sense. It’s important to invest your time into things that are lame. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/152 "2022-03-02T07:34:53Z")
Dracvlad, if you offered me 10 billion isk to war dec you… I would do it! ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/153 "2022-03-02T07:35:43Z")
Pointing out that a war deccer who is unable to war dec is fun. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/154 "2022-03-02T07:35:59Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Perhaps you might want to think about whether mining and exploration gives you enough knowledge about the game to make such comments, your experience is so limited. How does in game experience effect my ability to see whether someone is ignoring something or not? I’m confused ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/155 "2022-03-02T07:36:24Z")
You have no idea about the gameplay here. And yes you are confused. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/156 "2022-03-02T07:38:45Z")
Destiny is able to wardec… Destiny is also concerned you will not log in, and avoid the war. That’s the issue you seem to be avoiding. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/157 "2022-03-02T07:42:42Z")
As is mocking someone who claims to be an expert in all things eve yet seems unable to actually demonstrate that. Like I said before. Just saying the challenge sucks and you don’t want to do it. That’s fine. Saying I’m not doing your challenge because I’m better than you. You suck at the game. Is just laughable. You know all the boxing and mma stuff where the fighters are doing the weigh in and talking smack to each other. It’s like you are doing that bit but without ever getting in the ring. It’s just not credible. ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/158 "2022-03-02T07:43:40Z")
Hmmmmm. What has my game experience got to do with you chickening out of a challenge? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/159 "2022-03-02T07:52:18Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is a lame excuse, a structure is not the same as a bag of crisps. With a structure you can declare war against others and it enables certain game play. If you are so rich then the loss of a structure should not matter much, even the two week cooldown is not an issue. Most war deccers I saw who opposed this idea did not like the fact of losing something like this to their enemy. They just wanted to be able to sit around at hubs or in pipes and blap passing ships with no real come back. I’m very happy to have this heartfelt discussion about the finer points of high-sec war mechanics with you, but that doesn’t change the fundamental fact that I’m not interested in paying tens of billions of ISK every month just to conduct wars, nor am I interested in having a kill board full of dead Astrahuses for the privilege. Just because I have money, doesn’t mean I want to throw it away like an idiot. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > You are unwilling to put down a war HQ. My alliance has put down war HQ’s and we have enemies that could go after it. We accept that we could lose it, but the reality is that we have a strategic target in mind when we do wars, the loss of our war HQ against the value of the targets, which is a major difference in our mentality I guess. > > So if you want to go to war with my alliance, you will have to use a war HQ, that is your decision to make. I don’t care about your alliance; I care about _you,_ Dracvlad. And if I declare war on you, it will be nothing but a waste of time and money, since you’ll never undock and/or not be in high-sec, thus making the war pointless and irrelevant. This is a point that has been brought up by both myself and many others, and one you’ve conveniently chosen to ignore all this time. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/160 "2022-03-02T07:54:14Z")
Let me put it very simply so even you can understand it, this challenge was never about Eve in game warfare, but all about forum warfare. However in the end it basically showed that a player who makes long impassioned posts about HTFU, accept loss, take risk, Eve is a PvP game, take a loss etc., is not able to accept such risk. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m very happy to have this heartfelt discussion about the finer points of high-sec war mechanics with you, but that doesn’t change the fundamental fact that I’m not interested in paying tens of billions of ISK every month just to conduct wars, nor am I interested in having a kill board full of dead Astrahuses for the privilege. Just because I have money, doesn’t mean I want to throw it away like an idiot. So here is the pots that says it all. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I don’t care about your alliance; I care about _you,_ Dracvlad. And if I declare war on you, it will be nothing but a waste of time and money, since you’ll never undock and/or not be in high-sec, thus making the war pointless and irrelevant. > > This is a point that has been brought up by both myself and many others, and one you’ve conveniently chosen to ignore all this time. And added to, it is just excuse after excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466/161 "2022-03-02T07:55:25Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > you’ll never undock That’s the crux of the issue. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-gate-to-sivala/351466.md?page=9)