# The Grand Heist - Now Live! **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** release, official\ **Created:** [July 27, 2021, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516 "2021-07-27T11:00:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/306 "2021-08-02T18:15:08Z")
We said all that back in 2007 when CCP shifted their goal to “get 300k subs”. You’re not saying anything new nor does it actually apply to eve. All you’re really doing is spam raging and yelling about how the world is on fire but what you actually mean is that your part is on fire. In the mean time the world is doing just fine because it NEEDED that fire. Stop attention whoring. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/307 "2021-08-02T18:35:36Z")
And how did they advertise at the time ? The Butterfly Effect video promotion. It was WORLDS appart from current marketing direction. A couple of year later, we got to the 2011 peak. So no, no attention whoring here, just stating the facts for what they are. Dont like it? Feel free to look the other way. Trying to go for the larger audience dumbdumbs into a complicated and emergent game, will not work, unless you fall in favor of the dumbdumbs and nerf what makes the game complex, emergent and sandbox. Free isk anyone ? ---
**Author:** ![Yonis\_Kador](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yonis_kador/32/245480_2.png) [@Yonis\_Kador](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yonis_Kador)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/308 "2021-08-02T21:24:49Z")
> [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > In the mean time the world is doing just fine because it NEEDED that fire. You guys keep using words like “VITAL” and “NEEDED.” So, again, I ask: Says who? Thousands of players have now abandoned thousands of hours invested in the game. Their absence should be considered a terrible, embarrassing loss. So many friends…just gone, likely never to be seen again. But it was vital! It was needed! And still nobody explains why. Great that things look all evenly balanced and tidy on paper but it sure seems like the health of game was in a better state when it was populated. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/309 "2021-08-02T23:26:32Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Have you ever heard of the Star Wars Galaxies MMO ? Yes, I played it til they screwed it over. I served on SOE’s version of the CSM as their Scout Correspondent, and I was the longest serving member of the program. I know what happened there and I am not going to sit back idly by and let that happen here. Fortunately, it isn’t. CCP is not changing anything fundamental in the game. This isn’t panic mode - the company is making money hand over fist, and they just came off their best year since the company was bought by PA, and possibly ever. ---
**Author:** ![Sgt\_Ocker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sgt_ocker/32/270881_2.png) [@Sgt\_Ocker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sgt_Ocker)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/310 "2021-08-03T00:48:14Z")
If you were a forum dweller around 6 years ago you’d know many (me included over the Rorqual changes and moon mining) offered alternatives to what happened but CCP ignored everyone, including their precious CSM. Yes there are difficulties with a single shard game but no more than any other game. Maybe if CCP hadn’t promoted min/max game play to the point they did the last 2 years could have been avoided. Yes unfortunately most detractors of the last 5 or 6 years development were treated as nothing but static because CCP didn’t care enough to actually listen. They still don’t listen, they still don’t understand who plays Eve and why they play. Look at proposed changes/additions to nulsec - New anoms specifically for capitals. Awesome news for the mega alliances with Super umbrellas, not so much for anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 7:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/311 "2021-08-03T07:52:36Z")
Well, do your job as well as you say then, and if they mange some form of hybrid, we’ll see what gives until the start of next year. Signing off for another 6 months until then. All the best, ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/312 "2021-08-03T12:48:30Z")
Blimey. Not for the first time am I sitting here wondering why the CSM - and dear old Brisket in particular - bother with the whole affair when all they get is screaming accusations and near-incoherent ranting at every opportunity. For those expressing concern over whether your voice will be heard by your CSM: engage with some respect and decency, you’ll get a lot more positive result. For all the personal attacks on Brisc being a politician, you’d have thought that people might realise that having someone who is trained in negotiation, mediation and convincing arguing their case with CCP would be a good thing, not something to attempt to beat him over the head with. Similarly, representation does not mean agreeing - or supporting - your opinion. For example: “Hi CCP, yeah there’s been generally positive response to the ISK giveaway, though the negative kickback I warned about has also shown its head. There are some highly vocal critics on both the official forums and reddit, you want to keep an eye on pushing these guys too far as they are already at the edge of rationality” represents your views to CCP just fine, in my book. On the actual topic at hand, good to see hotfixes on the sites - haven’t had chance to find any yet, but good to know I’ll have a fighting chance of completing / dying to them when I do. Interested to see how (seemingly) few appear to be floating about though - my initial thoughts were that this would be a short-term event with many keys dropping but it now feels more like a slow but steady feed of these keys is in the offing, until of course the sites get solved and the supply goes bananas. I hope that someone keeps an eye on this, as would be a shame to have all the reserves drained and drainable at will… ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/313 "2021-08-03T13:30:31Z")
I’m thinking the same thing while “not being a fan” of Goons nor politicians. So for me to agree with him the others have to be pretty moronic and idiotic. ---
**Author:** ![Oskar\_Milde](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oskar_milde/32/396309_2.png) [@Oskar\_Milde](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oskar_Milde)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/314 "2021-08-03T14:44:54Z")
Ahhh yep, Brisc is indeed a pretty genuine guy as far as I can tell. I have plenty of disagreements with him - and more so with some of the nonsense from goons and The Meta Show in particular. Brisc also happens to have a lot of good opinions too (early and consistent charge against the red dot being a particular case in point). Agree or otherwise, I don’t have a problem having discussions in good faith and with respect. We are, after all, adults playing a computer game for entertainment, not toddlers throwing toys out of our prams. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/315 "2021-08-03T16:58:36Z")
You cannot blame the CSM or any of its members for the lack of ability of CCP to actually listen. They (CCP) always act as the smartest kid in school who is always sure they always knew the answer, so why would you ever disagree with them? They are always so sure of themselves that often they tend to brush off any advice the CSM or players offer. I applaud the CSM , especially Brisc and Mike, for their determination to keep rolling that stone up the mountain, even as a select group of obnoxious bystanders jeer at them. Keep rolling! ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/316 "2021-08-03T17:54:11Z")
> [@Buoytender\_Bob](#): > > I applaud the CSM , especially Brisc and Mike, for their determination to keep rolling that stone up the mountain, even as a select group of obnoxious bystanders jeer at them. Keep rolling! I am old and my hearing is fading, I thought that they were cheering. m ---
**Author:** ![Benteen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/benteen/32/255523_2.png) [@Benteen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Benteen)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/317 "2021-08-03T19:46:16Z")
> [@WeightLifting\_Nerd](#): > > I don’t understand why so many people are pissy about a couple hundred million from a log on event. Are you that scared of people buying a couple extra ships here and there? > To attack a csm for his opinion, when his opinion includes feedback from people that actually play is just dumb. > I honestly think ccp needs to start banning people from the forums that don’t have an active subscription. If you aren’t invested in the game, and disrupt every thread you can, you don’t deserve a voice to the elected csm and certainly not to ccp. So you’re saying ALL Alpha accounts should be banned for not paying subscription? That’d clear the decks nicely wouldn’t it. Think before you post please… Also Brisc you really need to think bud. You basically stated that EVERYONE who unsubbed because of this bullcrap is not worth listening to… that’s several thousand players that you insulted in one sentence… many of whom have industry based mains (miners, ship builders, parts builders, reactions specialists). If you as a CSM rep do not represent those of us who have unsubbed because of CCP’s poor decision making… you definately don’t represent everyone and that attitutde is unworthy of the CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/318 "2021-08-04T00:01:53Z")
> [@Benteen](#): > > that’s several thousand players that you insulted in one sentence… ex-players ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/319 "2021-08-04T07:34:19Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > CCP is not changing anything fundamental in the game That is patently false. CCP has changed a lot of fundamental things about eve without regard for the consequences. They introduced structures with docking capabilities for shops that were never meant to be docked, and they di nothing to prevent issues arising from this disregard for basic design principles of eve. They changed production from a limited by slots system to infinite slots in the same structure although the GamE was not and is still not designed around that. They made it possible to have all industry in one system while Eve was designed around people moving between systems to create conflict point through logistics. They changed minging and rat farming with rorquals and supers in ways that were never intended to be possible and in the process ruined ratting and mining for everyone else. Markets were meant to be idk sinks to keep the economy stable and not faucet for players, but CCP ignored that basic and important design principle as well to accommodate for their illguided contemporary development madness. They made Eve free to play without bonuses for omega and instead started double charging omegas for cosmetics. They started to engage in Salami tactics to sell SP, ships, ammo and soon more for RL cash. CCP changed lots of fundamental aspects in ways that ruined lots of good things about eve. Saying that CCP did not change fundamental aspects about eve is hilarious and toxically misrepresentative of the state of things. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/320 "2021-08-04T11:07:19Z")
Plus, they introduced instanced PvE and instanced PvP. Also population caps in sites, micro-management against emergent gameplay, and even exploit rules if people don’t do with sites what the developers want them to do. EDIT: Another one, making most income sources require active PvE or mining gameplay alienated PvP-oriented players. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/321 "2021-08-04T17:14:54Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Also population caps in sites, Well, to be fair the old static DED sites sorta had a population cap due to needing a key to get past the first room. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/322 "2021-08-04T18:09:25Z")
Everybody could use another key, the gate was not population hard locked. Also when a gate is unlocked, everybody can go in for a short period of time. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/323 "2021-08-04T18:21:27Z")
True but the only way to get another key would be to leave a different site uncompleted. And yes, the gate was unlocked for a very short time after using a key. That basically put a cap on the amount of players entering… Anyway, that’s why I originally said it ‘sorta had a population cap’. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/324 "2021-08-05T02:34:49Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > CCP changed lots of fundamental aspects in ways that ruined lots of good things about eve. Saying that CCP did not change fundamental aspects about eve is hilarious and toxically misrepresentative of the state of things. I said “changing.” You’re ignoring the entire context of the conversation I was having with Verlyn to cherry pick that statement (and you still got it mostly wrong). ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 5:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/325 "2021-08-05T05:13:50Z")
> [@The Grand Heist - Now Live!](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/305): > > Ok, this essentially compacts your previous reply to my post, so I’ll just quote it instead. I do feel I keep repeating myself here a lot over this but, Have you ever heard of the Star Wars Galaxies MMO ? It came out shortly before World of Warcraft and was one of your first, typical “throwing you out there” sandbox MMO. It did so great for the first couple of years. I remember having a real blast, it was sandboxy, it was Star Wars, you didn’t at all feel like the hero at the beginning. any… You are talking about this? I don’t see were I got anything wrong. CCP has been changing core aspects of the game for years and still is changing them to appeal to the wrong kind of players who don’t understand eve. What CCP is doing is verbatim to what happened to swg. You could argue that it’s not as bad yet (with which I would disagree) but CCP is not done yet. They are in full attack mode with their salami tactics. But as usual you don’t want to see that despite the tons of examples provided (and I forgot a number of more things, like abyss pvp and abyss PvE, special rules for event sites etc.) > [@The Grand Heist - Now Live!](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516/299): > > Well, first, the free isk wasn’t for new players, it was for Omega accounts. And after the last 18+ months of scarcity, where isk generation for a lot of players was a lot harder than it’s been in the past, it was welcome by a lot of folks. That being said, I argued against it, because the primary issue in the game isn’t the lack of money, it’s the lack of people in space, so I wanted them to require players to have to do something to get the isk - hell, even just undock and shoot a rat or two… And this? Eve is not spoon feeding you to level 10? Good, that costs you tons of RL cash because of CCP’s predatory SP packs. We are maybe looking through eve mechanics through old eyes but what you described is literally telling that eve is changing core aspects fundamentally to appeal to them. If you accustom them to an easier entry into the game, they get the wrong ideas and expectations and simply expect more of that. That’s how these new generation’s “radically different expectations” work out. Examples for this? Special rules against abyss pvp interference, special rules in event sites, hard number lock in ess sites, abyss PvE save from interference, etc. That said, explaining things and procedures better is not the same as giving them safe areas for PvE and PvP to emulate other games just to appeas them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-grand-heist-now-live/321516.md?page=17)