# The Havoc content, in it’s current form will physically and mentally hurt players if continued **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [December 2, 2023, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582 "2023-12-02T10:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/153 "2023-12-15T22:57:14Z")
That’s not what you claimed not what I answered to. Daily reward and limited-time sales (I’m talking 1-2 days) are mechanisms specifically added to teach playing habits to players. With those, CCP has proved they don’t mind using manipulation schemes to make players addict to the game. Claiming it’s not CCP’s fault for making players play too much is thus wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/154 "2023-12-15T22:59:31Z")
It’s what I was responding to. You can’t only quote one part of what I say when I am responding to another player. I was responding to someone claiming that CCP wants players to play 24 hours a day. THAT is what we are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/155 "2023-12-15T23:03:44Z")
> [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > I was responding to someone claiming that CCP wants players to play 24 hours a day. And you responded with a general statement that > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > it’s not a game’s fault for a player to play too much. as an argument to disregard the responsibility of CCP in that case. This general statement is the basis of an argument, so I only need to prove it wrong to make that specific argument also wrong - at least, the part that revolves around this general statement. I’m not saying CCP forces people to play 24H. I’m saying, the idea that developers are not responsible for the dependency-inducing mechanims is wrong and can’t be used in an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/156 "2023-12-15T23:04:45Z")
I didn’t use it as a general statement. Players should not blame a game for feeling the need to play 24 hours a day. That is a point where the person is not well, like being obese is not well for a person. ---
**Author:** ![Spacetramp\_Drago](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spacetramp_drago/32/480922_2.png) [@Spacetramp\_Drago](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spacetramp_Drago)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/157 "2023-12-16T18:47:34Z")
Players are reacting to events placed in the game by the devs and trying to protect their assets. All the blame lies on CCP’s shoulders for not giving the players more thought when events like this are designed, not just CCP though. Game designers in general when something out of the norm is introduced don’t consider the possible effects on their player base. They just see what effect it has on the metrics. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/158 "2023-12-16T19:10:59Z")
Give it a rest ---
**Author:** ![Calamity\_Unleashed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calamity_unleashed/32/413414_2.png) [@Calamity\_Unleashed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calamity_Unleashed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/159 "2023-12-16T19:20:30Z")
> [@Spacetramp\_Drago](#): > > Yet the American Collegiate and University system have Doctors and Mental Health professionals to look after their Esport teams, Esport teams that are there on Bursaries? Those Esport teams, aren’t they students at the college or the university? “Bursaries” You mean like a grant? Monetary allowance from the university for good performance in high school. Let’s agree on the sementics. EvE players aren’t students. ---
**Author:** ![Hyrja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hyrja/32/412180_2.png) [@Hyrja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hyrja)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/160 "2023-12-17T11:49:50Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Those are specifically designed to make the players feel bad when they try to reduce their exposure to the game. Players need to find that irl balance to care less. I lose weeks in mmos to irl stuff. I support my son’s scout troop. Active volunteer to assistant Scout master. This year that was 2 full weeklong resident camps. 1 weekend a month mostly for smaller campings. All off the grid.hell one site I maybe got cell signal maybe an hour here and here. True off grid…kinda nice too. Next year. 3 resident week longs, monthly weekends. I am Completely fine with that. I see my son have a good time. And the other kids too . Talk with some cool peeps with the other adults. Touch grass. Learn new Dutch oven ideas to try. Irl should be where it’s at really. I enjoy games. But…it’s just a game. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/161 "2023-12-17T12:09:36Z")
And my point is, those things, the devs are fighting them. ---
**Author:** ![Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elinore_en_divalone/32/507815_2.png) [@Elinore\_en\_Divalone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elinore_en_Divalone)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/162 "2023-12-18T01:22:50Z")
Isn’t _ **“Fly safe”** _ slogan a message for us to have a distance? Otherwise it has no sense if it refers to “in character activities” because of [Golden Rule #2 & #3](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/8-golden-rules-for-eve-online/3973) ---
**Author:** ![Hyrja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hyrja/32/412180_2.png) [@Hyrja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hyrja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/163 "2023-12-18T04:23:29Z")
Only if you invest that much care into it. I left eve for 5-6 years after 9 years solid play. Sunk cost fallacy…I beat it. lol. Eve fomo…I beat it. I went to wow and that game will fomo you till you are dead. Rez you and say man we aren’t done yet. I didn’t chase it there either. I came back for the fw changes. And wow pvp has gone to crap…in both game versions. I came back for a better pvp game. I don’t follow the paths I did before. I don’t even rage when I’ve missed a few insurgency payouts on victory. This, is seems, it only pays out when pirates win final system stage 5 and you are logged in. Only times I got my LP for complete victory anyway. Oh well. I had fun. I like making empire systems interesting even if only temporary. Also eve is at least nice enough to let some of this be player sellable. This char uses the sadly fomo valkyr wolf skin. the other account had it, not this one. Not sure why, maybe I sold it years ago. I dunno. Its now a “collectable” worth billions. I waited it out, saw it reach a low of 2.5 billion in jita one day and not say 4 billion or more and said wth, I have the isk. And I fly wolves alot. At least eve offers that option. Wow is only slowy doing that now with monthly trading store. Most times to my eyes old fomo they sell…is fugly AF to my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Jesusbuilt\_myhotrod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesusbuilt_myhotrod/32/401500_2.png) [@Jesusbuilt\_myhotrod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesusbuilt_myhotrod)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/164 "2023-12-18T16:06:58Z")
> [@Crimsonjade](#): > > **pirates are having fun**. This is because the pirates and their endless whining got the entirety of ECM nerfed, and the racial ability of the caldari removed and to this day not replaced. Give me back my ECM and we’ll see who is having fun and who is whining. ---
**Author:** ![MSXH](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/msxh/32/401630_2.png) [@MSXH](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MSXH)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/165 "2023-12-19T02:11:21Z")
ccp never hear hs players‘ idea ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2023, 4:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/166 "2023-12-19T04:40:52Z")
> [@Hyrja](#): > > Only if you invest that much care into it. No, they do it regardless of who you are and what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Jesoph\_Swolin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesoph_swolin/32/383423_2.png) [@Jesoph\_Swolin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesoph_Swolin)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2023, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/167 "2023-12-21T20:41:17Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > There is no “building up” needed, everybody can come to any system and do everything what the environment offers. You talk like you “own” those systems, but this is roleplay on your side. This is not roleplay on my side. Those people have been building up for at least the past three years. At least, that’s how far back I cba to look. Many of them were there long before that. Even if I dislike highsec, I will always keep a character nearby to help them defend their stuff, because I like them. I am uncertain what facet of that is so difficult to grasp. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Every content in Eve and other games can be over done to the point of health concerns. It is not for the game maker to try to protect players from themselves. I don’t disagree with you, but if I am FCing, and I notice that someone hasn’t slept in two days, and “bro, go to bed” doesn’t work, and kicking them from the fleet doesn’t work, I don’t stop worrying about that person just because I’ve exhausted my leverage options. The difference between me and Kaver is that I just bottle up said concern whilst he petitions CCP. Both are merely reacting to an inability to stop people from behaving like a bunch of ■■■■■■■ addicts. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > That’s because you’ve never actually been involved in them, especially at the level of a strat FC, or even someone with a Titan on grid. I have not been involved in them at the level of a strat FC (and pray that I never will), but I have (unfortunately) been in one with Titans. If you like it, I am happy for you, but personally, I’d rather stick to FW Lowsec with my characters, as solo PVP is more enjoyable to me. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > There is no legal justification for the argument. The Dutch government has a responsibility to look after the wellbeing of the Dutch citizenry. If the state did not have bigger fish to fry, it is a given that they would pursue the matter to show the electorate that they’re seeking out problems to tackle. Like rising sea levels, multiple armed conflicts in the world, insurance companies trying to introduce some bs called “deductibles”, and the reading and writing skills of 15 year olds plummeting to an all-time low. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > This does not contradict what I said. Regardless of the cash-out option, nowhere has there been a case where CCP has been sanctioned because of the hypernet violating anti-gambling laws. It’s been more than two years since it’s come out. I think it’s safe to say that this is a spurious argument whenever it’s made. I personally did not like the gambling example, but yes, if enough Dutch citizens developed a crippling addiction to Hypernetting, we would see such sanctions, but in that case they’d probably come to an arrangement where anyone connecting with a Dutch IP is barred from accessing the hypernet, and the really sad people would use VPNs to dodge this. At that stage, both the state and the company could say “■■■■ it, we tried” and call it a day. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Yes, yes, I should care what somebody who has played the game a shorter amount of time than my 13 year old has to think about EVE. I’ve been playing the game for 17 years, I’ve racked up more kills and more isk killed than most players. You want to cherry pick stats, that’s fine, but the only thing stopping me from not having as many solo kills as you is I’m really good at making friends. Sorry. You don’t have to care, but then you also don’t have to respond to these posts. That said, I may consider FW Lowsec to be the best part of this game, and I might consider any kill without the solo sticker to be a “necessary evil” at best or “zkill padding” at worst, but I make an effort not to let this cloud my judgment, whilst trying to see other people’s perspectives. I am not seeing that effort from you. I can’t tell whether that’s because you’re simply tired of dealing with stuff like this, or because you are far less friendly than you claim to be. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > And I translate ISK into USD because that’s what the reporters do who write the stories about these big fights. And if those reporters went more than skin-deep, they’d know that expressing values in USD is dumb, because there is no way to convert ISK into dollars without violating the EULA. What is happening is that a reporter needs to fill a column, picks whatever boring slog happened in Null, then calculates how much those assets would have been worth if all of it was purchased off the market with ISK acquired by selling PLEX. It is an entertaining thought experiment at best, and lazy reporting at worst. Just because people who don’t play this game make that mistake, doesn’t mean we have to follow their example. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > nobody is going to care what you do That is fine, as long as I have the undivided attention of the person I am 1v1’ing at the time. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > you’re not going to get in newspaper articles When you don’t care about being in news articles, this too is fine. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You have no idea what you’re talking about. It was thanks to me and a bunch of other nullsec CSMs that you got all of these FW updates - I spent three years telling CCP it was FW’s turn to get attention. > > You’re welcome. Firstly, I do have an idea of what I am talking about. Specifically, that people who don’t live in FW Lowsec, and do not participate in it, do not know enough about it to make suggestions for “improvements” for the region and its associated game mode to CCP. The most suitable CSM to undertake an endeavour like that is Stitch Kaneland. Secondly, certain things from certain patches are quite positive. Frontlines were great, even if the concept wasn’t implemented harshly enough (in my, admittedly, subjective opinion), and the fact that the new Insurgency content has rats from both belligerent factions, which can also point players, is a fantastic step forward in dealing with bots and empty-hull deplex alts, which should be introduced in regular FW ASAP. However, just because Uprising and Havoc had good aspects, does not mean that there will not be people who will bring up the aspects of the changes which they consider negative. When that happens, you do not need to take that as a personal insult and deride their statements or question their motives. The correct approach is to either convince them that their perspective is wrong, or ignoring them. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I’m a big fan of the Netherlands, and I have plenty of friends there. I don’t think most of them would subscribe to the same philosophy as your boy here, though. I don’t subscribe to his philosophy either. However, I still try to understand -why- he is saying this. In my opinion, he is saying this because he perceives that some people are so worried about losing the 50+ structures they built over the years, that the fear causes them to do irrational things. He sees no way to peer pressure them into going to sleep, so he calls upon CCP. Is that the correct thing to do? Probably not, as it hinges on the erroneous assumption that CCP somehow has the same responsibilities towards the EVE playerbase as the Dutch state has to its citizens, which is not the case. However, to me it seems like his heart is in the right place. Personally, I think that it is healthy to have a threat that keeps you on your toes, and Havoc might be just the thing highsec people need, but people being panicked into plexing for 3 days straight certainly doesn’t seem healthy to me. I will even concede that these people are a minority, as most people are engaging with the content in a healthy manner, but I can at least understand that when you see someone do something that is harmful to the self, and you have no way to stop or help them, it grates the soul. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I also don’t know why you guys keep acting like I’m still on the CSM. Firstly, the little white CSM ticker which was next to your name at the time. Secondly, only knowing you from two threads, within which it seemed like you were making a concerted effort to come off as rude, arrogant and unable to look past sov null, which aligned a little too closely with the stereotypical image the average militia player has of the CSM. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > No matter how much you do for the game, you’re going to get crapped on and it’s tiresome. If you managed to affect positive change, thanks, but unfortunately, humans don’t tend to speak up when things are going well. Then they just vibe. It is only when they perceive a negative change to their content of choice that they will pipe up to inform people that they have a problem with the way something is. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > your buddy here seems to think that’s a bad thing that should be regulated because people are apparently too stupid to make their own decisions about what they do with their free time. He does not think the content is bad. He thinks that at the current level of participation, the level of frequency with which they occur will cause burnout. Thus he suggests adjusting the frequency. At least, I think that’s what his point was. It has been a hot minute and I don’t want to scroll up through this dumpsterfire of a thread. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If you really think that’s true, you weren’t there. I indeed wasn’t, because FWST-8 was so boring that I jumped through a camped gate to dip, and had no desire to repeat the experience. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You want to try killing the game again, go for it. No, I know it wasn’t a positive change. It was a negative change. I am referencing it as an example. That does not mean that I intend to push for changes in an area I don’t play in. My issue as a lowsec player who experienced FW before and after Uprising is that this courtesy does not seem to be reciprocated, and now that Havoc is being released, I recognize the same pattern here. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > There’s no issue with my ability to notice such - if it had happened, I’d have seen it. But this is also an invitation for you and your buddy to actually do some research and find some cases that I didn’t see,if they exist. I was one of the EDENCOM FCs during the Trigvasions. Having to do a “chore” because “otherwise the systems go to space hell” was one of the most common complaints on comms, closely followed by “why are Caldari NPCs dead on arrival” and “why the ■■■■ did a shield Abbadon get SRP’d when doctrine says rail Feroxes and Ospreys” and “Really, all we’re getting is a ■■■■■■■ T-shirt?”. In fact the overwhelming majority of veteran players I flew with at the time didn’t even make it to the battle for Niarja because they burned themselves out with a three-day slog over Arshat. One of whom is a former CSM. If you want to talk about how people experienced the Trigvasions, feel free to ask her. Granted she usually didn’t suffer through the public fleet because the cluster of alliances she was associated with could form without the pubbies, so mileage may vary, but I can not imagine a reality in which she would not confirm that ■■■■ felt both grindy af and borderline obligatory if you had a reason to commit. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > CCP needs to shake things up to keep people interested in play and coming back. At the end of the day this is true, but much like farmers chopping down rainforest to create fertile soil to last them a few years, I don’t see compelling evidence that CCP has thought the effects of the changes through. Especially after Uprising. > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > Truck Simulator is not a PVP game and can in no way be related to EVE which is a PVP game. Fr, fr, on god. > [@Daim\_Is](#): > > And when people say EVE is a PvP game they sound ignorant because most people have probably played EVE and never done any PVP I’m not sure I could argue that they’ve ever really experienced EVE if they haven’t killed a Kikimora with a T1 frigate. Even with my distaste of Null battles, I at least went to a few before I made up my mind. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Ganking is player v player That’s a very radical take. In my opinion PvP should involve another player, in a ship, who is shooting back. > [@Spacetramp\_Drago](#): > > As for saying they don’t have to log on and play that way, they are left with no choice, defend or lose it all, all they possibly spent years building is on the line and all because CCP and probably the CSM want to forcibly direct a certain type of player into playing in a way they don’t want to. I think this touches on the part which I consider reprehensible as well. Not just the whole bit where people are strong-armed into forming a defence or losing all their structures. Specifically the bit where these people didn’t sign up for this. I chose to mainly live in the Gal-Cal WZ. I chose to enlist in a militia. These people chose to live in a HS system. They didn’t vote for it to become LS due to new content. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Still a players responsibility. As said earlier, I agree. It is their own responsibility to put IRL first. But it feels really ■■■■■■■ bad when they don’t and you can’t persuade them to. Maybe I should make like Jeb Bush and “let those people go”, but that rubs the wrong way. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > in front of a jury in Iceland - which is the choice of law you agree to when you login to the game. And this is the real reason why I believe that this won’t amount to anything. As I said like 20 days ago. Icelandic law and logic applies. Not Dutch law and logic. So what Kaver is saying, whilst making sense here, will not find common ground. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I had never heard anybody argue that the Trig invasion content had “harmed player health,” and so far nobody I’ve talked to about this argument has any idea what you’re talking about. I find this incredibly hard to believe. You served on the CSM alongside at least one person I flew with back then. She was actively involved when all that went down, and should be in the know. > [@Piewpie\_La\_Canarde](#): > > Three years to convince CCP to revamp Faction Warfare? > DEAR LORD! Missions have no chance then. Although I understand. The PvP part of the game is the most important for CCP. It should be stated that FW can easily be divided into fleet content, gang content and solo content, and that assuming that all of these benefitted from Uprising is a mistake. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Missions, just like mouse cursor or pos’s are so entwined with spaghetti, its either easier to make new pve content or add a few new missions like they did for L2s a few years ago. With missions so entwined they could break something bad. Thats why drones are hard to deal with. They tried to change something and it broke something else That’s the kicker. For years I never bothered asking for FW changes because I simply assumed they weren’t able to due to having fired the guy who made the spaghetti. Then suddenly, bam, Uprising. Multiple mechanics start discouraging solo, but all the new randoms in fleets seem really positive about this, not even knowing about the gf culture that existed there before them. > [@Spacetramp\_Drago](#): > > On a normal day, with normal play I would probably agree it was down to the player to manage their own time and health, but this event isn’t normal play on a normal day. This. There’s no guarantee that all the structures in a system will get popped if it goes lowsec, but there’s still a chance that they will, and that gives it the same compulsory hook as the Trigvasions. > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > None of EVE’s events require 24 hours a day farming. If a player feels they need to, that is their decision or they should seek addiction help depending on the severity. Just like it’s not the grocery store’s fault that people buy too much food and become obese, it’s not a game’s fault for a player to play too much. This thread is not about farming. Please re-read from top to bottom. > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > Please provide citation. What examples would drive a reasonable person to play for 24 hours a day. I have seen both the Triglavian invasions and the Havoc thing push otherwise rational people to do 3 day marathons with a few six hour naps involving alarm-clocking inbetween. > [@Malak\_Starfire](#): > > I didn’t use it as a general statement. Players should not blame a game for feeling the need to play 24 hours a day. That is a point where the person is not well, like being obese is not well for a person. Not necessarily. The burden of defence ceases once a system becomes an Edencom Fortress, or reaches tier 5 suppression. The problem lies in the fact that these forms of content created, and create “If I don’t do this all my ■■■■ explodes” conditions, in an area of the game that should be relatively unprofitable, but also relatively stable. ---
**Author:** ![Malak\_Starfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malak_starfire/32/501915_2.png) [@Malak\_Starfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malak_Starfire)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/168 "2023-12-22T01:12:10Z")
You quote me, but not those I responded to, your arguments are not even about what I or the person I responded were talking about. But to all your talk of people having built up stuff for years I will only provide a link to an EVE trailer about those very structures: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjTrPutt4k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjTrPutt4k) All that aside, structures are not threatened, insurgencies simply do not last long enough to be able to siege them. It would require players to simply stop farming FW LP, in which case we would have to worry about the overall health of the game if that ever became the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Calamity\_Unleashed](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/calamity_unleashed/32/413414_2.png) [@Calamity\_Unleashed](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Calamity_Unleashed)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/170 "2023-12-22T15:31:28Z")
> [@Spacetramp\_Drago](#): > > an ex CSM member who was banned along with 3 others for cheating… > > he’s some kind of high flying lobbyist in the states. Seems like lots of players cheat in EvE because the game itself lends the opportunities to. The matter isn’t helped with the permission to have as many accounts as one wishes. Botting, for example, is cheating… made easier by the game itself. In other games, Multiboxing would be cheating too but in EvE everything is fine. I’m sure there are many other exemples but I don’t know EvE entirely yet. ---
**Author:** ![Komi\_Valentine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/komi_valentine/32/502956_2.png) [@Komi\_Valentine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Komi_Valentine)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2023, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/171 "2023-12-23T15:13:41Z")
I think the main problem here is, that in eve there is truely stuff on the line. Sure, ISK and stations and everything doesn’t really matter objectively, but subjectively it might matter a lot to people. A certain station, a certain system or region, a ship, whatever… And it drives people to do things that are unhealthy like fighting a 10 hour Tidi battle or griding for months to archieve a goal. Of course CCP is not to blame for this individual behaviour, but they create the environment where some people put real life back and protect their subjective important things. That’s what makes eve so cool and unique because there is stuff on the line that feels real, and this needs to be balanced so it doesn’t have too much impact on players. Game developers need to be careful about this. For example Eve has the station timers as well so you don’t need to be online 24/7 to defend your station. The main concern is that this system forces people to fight at a certain time really hard or potentially loose subjective value built up in some years. And this is in favour of the attacking side, because they have nothing to loose so guess which of the two sides is more likely to burn out over a long period of time? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/172 "2023-12-26T16:35:45Z")
> [@Spacetramp\_Drago](#): > > You do realise that you’re arguing with an ex CSM member who was banned along with 3 others for cheating not too long ago? Google it, it’s all online. > > He is only here because he threatened CCP with legal action because he makes out he’s some kind of high flying lobbyist in the states. Now he thinks he can get away with anything at all on the forums… > > Strangely when he had to step down one of the others that got banned then reinstated got voted onto the CSM. It’s because the null blocks don’t care in any way whatsoever about other parts, they just want their spies in the CCP camp. > > Yes, his replies whilst on the CSM were just as bad as this… For the love of God, why do people continue to make this ■■■■ up is beyond me. Google CCP’s apology to me, and the fact that all three of us who were banned were allowed to run for CSM and got elected, in my case THREE TIMES, and maybe you guys would simply accept that we did nothing wrong, CCP knnows they ■■■■■■ up, they apologized for it and we kept on playing the game. There were no legal threats. I didn’t have to go the legal route because they recognized they screwed up before we ever got to that point. I’ve said this on a dozen streams in the last five years, yet you guys keep repeating this idiocy like if you say it enough it will become true. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582/173 "2023-12-26T17:04:44Z")
Next time you’ll claim it was just the remains of a weather balloon. 😏 😈 🤫 😇 🍿 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-havoc-content-in-it-s-current-form-will-physically-and-mentally-hurt-players-if-continued/430582.md?page=9)