# The imbalance of constructive and destructive efforts in Eve Online **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 19, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383 "2017-12-19T21:20:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/22 "2017-12-20T14:27:21Z")
> [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > I feel like you could make your point with much less words, yet decided to not do so, for some reason. You must be new to these forums đŸ€Ł > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Why are people complaining about alts when they are free now? Get out of here with your sensible talk, we don’t need that kind of thing around here 😋 ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Pig](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_pig/32/374625_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Pig](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/23 "2017-12-20T14:31:10Z")
> [@L0ckAndL0ad](#): > > CCP actively supports and promotes griefers/scammers. Seen all those promo videos on the official EVE youtube channel? Disgusting _watches EVE trailers_ _is disgusted by them_ _decides to download and play_ _cries on forums about mean game_ đŸ„‘ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/24 "2017-12-20T14:38:55Z")
> [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > (unless you’re marxist and believe in objective value of goods) What? Uhh
no? ---
**Author:** ![Zence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zence/32/44475_2.png) [@Zence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zence)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/25 "2017-12-20T15:48:13Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > While ganking is a poor mechanic at the moment, it’s the only way to save the game. Unlike 0.0 alliances, ganker corps are more than willing to lose ships. And losing ships is the engine that drives this game. Although I don’t play PVP, I do agree with the need to lose ships more often. After you have a few billion ISK, there’s not much else. If CCP setup 1V1 PVP combat arenas - with ship restrictions, I would enjoy PVP, but as is, PVP for me at least is not enjoyable or balanced. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/26 "2017-12-20T16:24:05Z")
Ganking isn’t a problem and there is already WAY more construction happening than destruction, this is shown in the metrics. No worries then 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Kyon\_Rheyne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kyon_rheyne/32/40722_2.png) [@Kyon\_Rheyne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kyon_Rheyne)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/27 "2017-12-20T16:24:18Z")
There is certain, almost religious, idealistic belief wide-spread among followers of certain cults, that any produced item has a [fixed absolute value](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_value). And if this value changes significantly (like may happen due to classic market supply-demand interconnection), that’s only because of evil imperialistic shenanigans, and stuff 😃 > Thus, the fluctuating exchange value of commodities (exchangeable products) is regulated by their value, where the magnitude of their value is determined by the average quantity of human labour which is currently socially necessary to produce them (see labor theory of value and value-form). The fact some goods you produced are not needed by anybody, even if you’ll start handing it off for free, doesn’t matter. Btw, they also call it a “scientific teaching” ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/28 "2017-12-20T16:38:37Z")
Nothing is less Marxist than saying any number of candlesticks are objectively worth any number of breads. This can be proven by taking a bag of candlesticks to Siberia. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/29 "2017-12-20T16:51:58Z")
You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/30 "2017-12-20T17:16:32Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > > [@Do\_Little](#): > > > > The claim that the economy is experiencing inflation is ridiculous. The consumer price index has been falling almost continuously since the game was released. > > The prices of things are falling. > > > [@Do\_Little](#): > > > > The only in game asset that is appreciating is PLEX > > The price of this thing is rising. > > > [@Do\_Little](#): > > > > the problem . . . is the huge surplus of ISK in the game > > More money makes the price of things go up. > > Lets rearrange these assertions to better compare and contrast: > > - Prices are falling. > - Money supply is increasing. > - Increasng money increases prices. > - This price is rising. > > ^ One of these things is not like the others . . . is it time to play our game? Well of course it seems backwards when you completely fail to understand what consumer price index is. CPI doesn’t track the price of goods, but the relative value of those goods to the buying power of the average person. for example, lets say in 2010 a rifter costs 1 million. in 2011 the total isk in the economy is doubled, so the price of a rifter should be 2 million. if instead its only increased to 1.75 due to over-production and not enough destruction. then the CPI has in fact gone down, meanwhile isk supply has increased, and prices have increased. yes, the price of plex has increased faster than the isk supply. yes it is harder to earn a plex these days than it was during the “golden days”. but that is a single item in the market, which means it is an outlier data point, and while important to the economy yes, is not an accurate indicator for the market as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/32 "2017-12-20T18:12:40Z")
> [@L0ckAndL0ad](#): > > I don’t even write on the forums. That’s my first post ever, and it’s called “sharing opinion”. Clearly it’s not “writing on the forums”. No. You don’t do that. Never done it. Never will. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/33 "2017-12-20T18:37:21Z")
I understand what you are saying OP. But some things are getting tougher to just simply do, even for fun as far as the constructive side goes. There is not enough destruction going on, and all the big rage is rorqs and structures
 Eden in my opinion is under attack, a perverse mentality has entered it and coupled with the serious botting issus over the past couple of years its not getting any better. Im not sure what nullsec is waiting for to have major conflicts again
 Im not sure why it isnt a thing in Highsec
 Most things pvp related have been small scale in nature, almost like the playerbase is waiting for something. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/34 "2017-12-20T20:11:20Z")
> [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > I feel like you could make your point with much less words If you feel that way, maybe you could do us a favor and state that point using fewer words. > [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > If there are people willing to pay isk for some goods with more demand than there are goods - prices goes up. Even if they don’t have more money to pay the higher price? > [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > regardless of how much money is in the system, if a lot of people want to exchange [ISK] for plex, [PLEX price] goes up. [Quote edited for clarification] Even if people don’t have more money to pay a higher price? > [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > If those who can “produce” plex can set some rediculous price and get away with that (still have stable demand and their competitors won’t decide to cut their price) - it goes up. Even if no one has more money to pay a higher price? > [@Kyon\_Rheyne](#): > > I fail to see what is it so difficult to understand? What have I misunderstood? ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/35 "2017-12-20T20:21:40Z")
I basically agree with you and L0ckAndL0ad. EVE is messed up and there is no point building. Sure, the monthly economic result
 The thing is, if you are small, if you want to play your game you cannot “win”. Sooner or later someone big and strong comes and destroy all your stuff - if you own some and you will not have much options to deal with it - mercs will cost as much as replacing the lost structure and you can’t even trust they really help you. Self-defense will not work unless tha attacker is small corp and first timer. I’ve been there. I had dreams of building my trading citadel, then when I joined smaller corp that was trying to build a community it went to horrible craps, wardecs - unable to play without pvp fleet ready to defend which was only in prime time, if you wanted play before it then only with npc corp alt as the enemies were afk cloaked in your system. Or were they afk? 🙂 In the end, it didn’t end because of enemies but from within. Turned out one of the player played his own game “gain trust, steal everything” and succeded in it. I don’t know if there is any other game where making alts is not only recommended but even promoted. All the games I know are punishing player for helping himself with other chars. In eve you just must do it if you want compete/survive. The scout alts, cyno alts. afk-cloaking alts, industry/pi alts, npc corp hauling/trading alts, suicide-gaking alts and more. Disguisting at first. Later I joined the train myself. No point playing “clean” as the only one who consider all this stuff to be “dirty” is yourself
 The alt game is probably result of the very unique skill training system eve uses. Something which I embraced at first but turned out it is much worse than the classic system “you will improve in what you doing frequently” or “level up by playing and then decide what you will train up” systems from other games. EVE is horrible game. I hate it. And I guess I love it when I still play it, crap. I hate myself for playing it but it can get addicting when you are “winning”. But one thing is certain. If you want to produce, if you want to build and own something else than bunch of stuff in station then you have to join some bigger entity. If you don’t do that it is just a matter of time before someone will destroy all you built. Or the solution I choosed - own nothing, go destroying other ppls ships and assets. It is actually the most fun part of the game
 ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/36 "2017-12-20T20:47:10Z")
> [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](#): > > CPI doesn’t track the price of goods, but the relative value of those goods to the buying power of the average person. The Consumer **PRICE** Index literally tracks the prices of goods, but I think you are thinking about it somewhat correctly with what you’ve said. Although it literally tracks the prices of items that people commonly purchase, it is actually an attempt to ascertain the value of those goods with respect to the value of the money used to purchase them. Hence, it is commonly referred to in the context of inflation/deflation. If you look at the [decomposition of the CPI](http://content.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/73479/1/9ea_index.decomp.ConsumerPriceIndex.png) in the latest MER you’ll notice that most of the data points are red. The blue data points are essentially outliers. I.E., there is a general trend and there are special cases. Unless I’m reading the graph wrong, prices are falling. Man, I hope I’m not readling that graph wrong. lol Some (rhetorical) question: Why are prices always falling? What are the causes of the price increases at the blue data points? Is this a comprehensive basket of goods? What factors might affect this graph and what are those factors doing over time with respect to this graph? How do the changes in those factors seem to affect this graph? ---
**Author:** ![Forseti\_Valkyrie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forseti_valkyrie/32/29645_2.png) [@Forseti\_Valkyrie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forseti_Valkyrie)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/37 "2017-12-20T23:42:09Z")
Let’s have a reset across the board. Every player wiped to 500k SP and placed in a random NPC station with an armed frigate, a venture and a Fedo. No alliances, just corps. No sovereignty, just know your own space. No NPC blueprints on market, just random drops. game on. I would GLADLY take all 16 of my accounts to a fresh server. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Semper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_semper/32/462930_2.png) [@Captain\_Semper](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_Semper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/38 "2017-12-21T05:56:30Z")
Time ago there were no standing system. Do you think that stops people to make coalition and allinace? No ofc they still “not shoot” if person in special list. That was point before - it is mankind nature. We want to co-op and safe play. And each year this “co-op” is only grow. In the end it will be 1 single coalition. CCP work here is to not allow this. They must promote war. They must make coalition not profitable and totaly unsaftiy. They can do this with hard restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/39 "2017-12-21T09:59:17Z")
> [@Captain\_Semper](#): > > We want to co-op and safe play. Speak for yourself > [@Captain\_Semper](#): > > And each year this “co-op” is only grow. In the end it will be 1 single coalition. Seems highly unlikely but ok
 > [@Captain\_Semper](#): > > CCP work here is to not allow this. I agree. CCP should not give you what you want. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/40 "2017-12-21T10:57:57Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > > CCP work here is to not allow this. > > I agree. CCP should not give you what you want. Made me chuckle. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Semper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_semper/32/462930_2.png) [@Captain\_Semper](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_Semper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/41 "2017-12-21T11:03:06Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Seems highly unlikely but ok
 Stone age: many tribes Bronze age: small towns Middle: Cities and countries Modern: you know Does this analogy clear? In Eve: At start we have many alone\_stands corps Then they start forge alliances After that - coalitions. Do you remember the times when wars were started just for fun or because some people was angry on another? For now this probably will never happen again. Just because “better live in peace and safty and make money”. If you not playing with other people this doesnt mean that human society doesnt stream to this. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383/42 "2017-12-21T11:05:27Z")
> [@Captain\_Semper](#): > > We want to co-op and safe play. I actually want to destroy your stuff and take what’s left, because you’re defenseless and weak. I see no point in having weak people around, they only drag the rest of us down. With people like you, humanity would never have gotten as far as it did. You probably think evolution is a lie, right? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-imbalance-of-constructive-and-destructive-efforts-in-eve-online/46383.md?page=3)