# The Liberation of Floseswin **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Tags:** faction-war, low-sec, pvp\ **Created:** [April 23, 2021, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426 "2021-04-23T18:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/25 "2021-04-29T13:49:10Z")
> [@Amicia\_Cora](#): > > You’re talking about things you don’t understand. No, just things you don’t want to admit, especially to yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/26 "2021-04-29T14:41:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > I’m sympathetic to those on whose behalf the terrorists act. On whose behalf they _claim_ to act, Ushra’Khan are not contemptible solely because of the tools they use; far more so because they agitate so persistently for the same suffering they claim to answer. The Royal Heirs do as they must in service of the Empire and the interests of their holdings, this distinguishes them significantly from a non-state actor like Ushra’Khan one built on a foundation of anger and outrage–they _need_ suffering, chaos and above all conflict to sustain their brittle influence, and in my experience are not shy of instigating it when they feel it to be lacking. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/27 "2021-04-29T14:57:26Z")
So the Heirs take part in State sanctioned terrorism. A distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/28 "2021-04-29T15:02:44Z")
Not what I said, though I am unsurprised you see it that way. The Heirs as I said use what tools they must, but place far, far higher import upon the consequences of their actions, when the custodian of a millennia old legacy, and wishing to see it endure one tends to value stability and order very highly. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/29 "2021-04-29T15:06:58Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > The Royal Heirs do as they must in service of the Empire and the interests of their holdings, this distinguishes them significantly from a non-state actor like Ushra’Khan one built on a foundation of anger and outrage–they _need_ suffering, chaos and above all conflict Yes, the Royal Heirs do as they must in the service of their own **Power**. They need suffering, _order_, and above all the destruction of everyone not themselves. They just want that destruction to be the slow erosion of self, of people, suffering dragged out and inflicted upon generation after generation, until the victims don’t even recognize it, because it’s all they’ve ever known. _So_ much better. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > The Heirs as I said use what tools they must, but place far, far higher import upon the consequences of their actions, when the custodian of a millennia old legacy, and wishing to see it endure one tends to value stability and order very highly. You mean they place far, far higher import on maintaining their own power and privilege. When one is the beneficiary of a millennias-old legacy, and wishes to see those benefits endure, one _does_ tend to value supporting the continued abuse of ‘lesser’ people… _very_ highly, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/30 "2021-04-29T15:08:41Z")
For any confused viewers out there: there are distinct differences between acts of war and terrorism. Sometimes the means and results are similar, but the distinctions exist to differentiate legitimacy and legality. That said, all war is terror in the visceral sense. What we participate in is a horrific failure of humanity to understand itself and God. I participate in it because I find the alternatives far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/31 "2021-04-29T15:12:45Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > For any confused viewers out there: there are distnct differences between acts of war and terrorism. Shelling a slave population already isolated within their residential sector isn’t an act of war. Lobbing anti-matter WMDs from a submarine onto a coastal village that could never have presented _any_ threat to the sub… not an act of war. Beginning a large-scale military assault on the civilian population of a planet because you don’t like what _your own contractors_ are doing in space? Not an act of war. More like an act of war criminals. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/32 "2021-04-29T15:19:19Z")
And lending direct aid to an invading interdimentional civilization to conquer a system on its behalf? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/33 "2021-04-29T15:22:12Z")
… is grounds for resignation. I told you at the time that I’m only remaining where I am because I won’t abandon those who’ve bled for me while they’re under assault. The war hasn’t ended. When it does, I go home. And you already knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/34 "2021-04-29T15:24:15Z")
I see you have not yet left your war criminal petty nation. Now please, get off your high horse and step in the mud with the rest of us. Hypocrisy is unbecoming of someone so loud. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/35 "2021-04-29T15:38:13Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > I see you have not yet left your war criminal petty nation. Yes, that’s what ‘only remaining where I am’ means. Very good, Lord-Consort, you’ve managed to repeat my own statements about myself. Get off my high horse? What high horse? When have I ever denied that I’m an enabler of monsters? Do you think someone comes through B-R5RB, or M2-XFE with even a single illusion about the scale of loss of life we engender out here? Does anyone imagine the Rage Keepstars managed to get their full crew complements evacuated to safety? You know better, Aldrith. You know damned well that my willingness to call out your masters’ bloodlust and savagery as the base, craven _butchery_ that it is has nothing to do with _hypocrisy_. I don’t need to make up any nonsense about being pure, or blameless, or even a _decent human being_ in order to make clear just how much _more_ devastation and destruction of the innocent the hands of your House are bloodied by. Bloodied… Hah! Your coward leaders practically _bathe_ in it. At least the monsters I work for actually [show up](https://zkillboard.com/kill/87916799/) on the front lines occassionally. And don’t feed me any of that ‘oh, but Mittens is a capsuleer’ nonsense, either. Jamyl demonstrated just how willing Sarum is to make sure their Heirs get cloned. Hypocrisy is, indeed, unbecoming, whether loud or not. And your empire _reeks_ of it. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/36 "2021-04-29T15:48:20Z")
I also see that your pride still makes you no more worth engaging with than before. Take a moment, step back, and realise that we are one and the same. Your refusal to take that one, simple step causes you great grief, I can tell. Until then. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/37 "2021-04-29T16:12:51Z")
Yep. Totally one and the same. That’s why I can publicly disagree with Mittens and say that I think supporting the Trigs in Niarja was short-sighted, foolish, needlessly cruel and thoughtless, and would probably constitute a war crime if, you know, the Empire even _cared__1_. Hell, it even could’ve backfired horribly if TEST hadn’t been completely incompetent and failed to even get people in a fleet to shoot at us. And the price I pay for that defiance will be… Yeah, nada. Nothing. And you… can’t say _a single damned thing against Arrach Sarum_, because if you do, he might retaliate against _even more_ innocent non-combatants by enslaving your children. **Totally** just the same. But hey, if we’re just the same, then you calling me a hypocrite would’ve meant you were calling _you_ one, too, wouldn’t it? Wanna take a _third_ ineffectual swing here, Aldrith, or you gonna quit while you’re behind? * * * 1. Which, you know, I would have thought they _would_. I mean, major trade artery, important enough for a big splashy ‘OMG, NIARJAAAAA!!!’ in the Scope and ACN, but actual _standings_ with the Empire? Not a freakin’ twitch. Not so much as a 0.001 point drop. I’ve seen rogue drones give more of a crap about human life than the empires seem to have during the Trig invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/38 "2021-04-29T16:20:51Z")
All that grief with a grief footnote. I’ll wait. Not like I have much choice. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2021, 4:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-liberation-of-floseswin/307426/39 "2021-07-28T16:21:33Z")
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