# The Lies of the Caldari State **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2021, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474 "2021-02-19T13:11:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2021, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/101 "2021-03-16T01:40:47Z")
An element of legitimate political economy remains buried in all this posturing: the power elite of any society are accountable. If the Guristas propose to carve out a state of their own, the only difference between them and the megacorporations that carved out the State in the first place is that they have not succeeded, yet However, they have also not failed, yet. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. ---
**Author:** ![Van\_Cleef](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/van_cleef/32/263061_2.png) [@Van\_Cleef](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Van_Cleef)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 4:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/102 "2021-03-23T04:45:33Z")
While there are many other discussions intertwined in your original post, your basic and original thesis is flawed. When you say that the Caldari took to the stars you fail to mention that there was partner to that venture, the Caldari and the Gallente shared a system. The original government of the Caldari was based on a typical government structure, full of waste, fat and ineffective measures. That was never more so proven when the Gallente attacked, and destroyed the Caldari State, seizing the Homeworld and send the Caldari people into Nomads. Sent to the Stars the Caldari people moved from a bureaucracy to a meritocracy. It was the megacorps that provided hope to people who had lost hope. It was under the Megacorps that the Caldari State was reborn. That said, “Fatal” and “The Rabbit” were opportunists. They didn’t seek to increase State influence, they sought fortune and plunder. They aren’t the “Robin Hood” of the Caldari State, they are pirates. They do not inspire change or progress, but feed off it, they are a parasite. They seek to destroy, while the State seeks to rise. There is a difference there. A very important difference. A lot of this has changed with the rise of Tibus Heth’s government ideals, ideals that challenge traditional Caldari ideals. That is a different discussion, but to paint Fatal and The Rabbit as some sort of patriots is disingenuous at least, and at best an outright lie. ---
**Author:** ![Durant\_Aristide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/durant_aristide/32/356283_2.png) [@Durant\_Aristide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Durant_Aristide)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/103 "2021-04-14T16:43:48Z")
Well, I may be very late to this discussion, but for what it is worth, I am certainly glad yet another human being is able to realize the fallacies of the Caldari State. You are more than just prawns to the unyielding authorities of the megacorporations. More power to you, and best of luck in your future endeavors. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/104 "2021-04-14T17:39:52Z")
Are we to presume that’s an endorsement of self-admitted and apparent psychopathic pirates in general, or are you just so deplorable as to endorse whichever malignant element you come upon as long as they harm those you personally disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Durant\_Aristide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/durant_aristide/32/356283_2.png) [@Durant\_Aristide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Durant_Aristide)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/105 "2021-04-14T17:49:15Z")
It is not an endorsement to anything, per se. A mere statement of general nature, and the latter part being a mere wishing of good luck from one person to another irrespective to politics. I think I am allowed to say such things, no? As for being deplorable…well, I am not sure whether to laugh or to feel pity at such an accusation coming from a kybernaut. You betrayed the nation that birthed you, _and your humanity_ on top of that, but yes…_I am_ the deplorable. Quite rich, really. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/106 "2021-04-14T18:18:38Z")
Yes, very, and no judgement on me will change that. Only one of us is here wishing “power to you” and “best of luck in your future endeavors” to a pirate. Irrespective to politics? If you think my post was commentary on your laughable optics you are very mistaken. It was commentary on the bankruptcy of your moral character. ---
**Author:** ![Durant\_Aristide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/durant_aristide/32/356283_2.png) [@Durant\_Aristide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Durant_Aristide)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/107 "2021-04-14T18:33:56Z")
Kybernauts aren’t qualified to make judgments on moral character. Speaking of moral character though, how are the billions of Caldari citizens you helped lock away in Pochven faring? ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/108 "2021-04-14T18:52:09Z")
You cannot even attempt a proper rebuttal, can you? This is a public forum, you know, to refuse to acknowledge legitimate criticism on the grounds of who provided it is… plain embarrassing really. I would recommend thinking up a proper apologetic piece to post regarding your open endorsement of the Guristas before you dig yourself even deeper. ---
**Author:** ![Durant\_Aristide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/durant_aristide/32/356283_2.png) [@Durant\_Aristide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Durant_Aristide)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/109 "2021-04-14T19:02:40Z")
There is nothing to rebuke. Criticism from such a blatant traitor of humanity is not criticism at all - mere delusional speech from a deranged creature. The sad part is that you willingly betrayed New Eden on your own accord. A Nation servant didn’t have that choice, but you did. Shame. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/110 "2021-04-14T19:29:27Z")
Said a speaker who just supported the worst of pirate factions of New Eden. How much more hypocritical anyone could be? Supporting gurista IS a betrayal of New Eden. Supporting gurista IS a betrayal of Humanity. How dare you, committing such a heinous act, judge anyone else?! Shame on you. Shame. ---
**Author:** ![Miran\_Tereven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miran_tereven/32/383453_2.png) [@Miran\_Tereven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miran_Tereven)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/111 "2021-04-18T15:58:52Z")
> [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Brothers and sisters of the Caldari State, > > Centuries ago our honoured ancestors took the stars with the dream and vision to secure a home for the Caldari people. The wild frontiers of space were tamed and made productive through the artifice of Caldari ingenuity and determination where after decades of labour and toil the lands where our people settled could be looked upon with pride. The soil where the Caldari people toiled for centuries also had to be watered with the blood of patriots who fought for the peace and freedom of their lands from the tyranny of those who sought to deprive them of their liberties. Once, there was a hope and dream – of Caldari lands made prosperous and free – that our ancestors fought and bled earnestly for that their children may reap the benefits of their suffering and sacrifice. > > But fellow children of our Caldari ancestors you must but look out among the stars and fields where our people fought and bled to see and to know that the dreams of our ancestors have been betrayed. Betrayed by the very leaders on the CEP whose sacred duty were to secure the revolution. Too busy securing their own power and privilege has caused the corporate leadership of the State to become blind to the needs and requirements of its own people. So engrossed in the acquisition of wealth above all else they bred the complacency that has lead to the death or servitude of billions of Caldari lives. > > It was the corporate leaders of the State who betrayed the Caldari Navy. Preferring instead to secure the power of their own Megacorporations which they operate as personal fiefdoms it is readily apparent that the Caldari Navy had neither the material requirements nor the doctrinal fortitude provided by competent military leadership. The brave men and women of the Navy were sacrificed at the hands of the Triglavian invaders, not for honour, not for the State, but for the egregious self-interests of the Megacorporate elites who remained safe and secure behind their corporate militaries while others died in their name. > > It was the corporate leaders of the State who have betrayed their own citizens. Not only those innocent State citizens who must now languish at the pernicious hands of Triglavian invaders and their processes of ‘bioadaptation’ but also the countless brave men and women who protested at the gross incompetence of corporate leadership and sought to hold them to account. The depth of their betrayal now made manifest with the depth of blood they have shed of the citizenry, their true nature revealed, for they do not see their workers as human beings but nothing more than serfs destined to be bound by the indenture of corporate vassalage. > > But there are those who saw the Caldari State for what it was decades ago. Men like Jirai ‘Fatal’ Laitanen and Korako ‘the Rabbit’ Kosakami who had the prescience of mind to see what the corporate leaders of the Caldari State were turning it into – the private fiefs of a new Megacorporate aristocracy. As you look out among the stars know that there are still those who maintain the traditions of taming a wild and dangerous frontier out in Venal. Fellow Caldari who treat those who work for them as people and not as subjects to be used and discarded at their whim and pleasure like in the State. A place where true meritocracy exists, where you are judged not by the fortune of your birth and stock ownership but what you can offer with the sweat of your own brow and the toil of your own hands. > > Look out among the stars brothers and sisters and decide where you would rather be. > > _Transcript of speech delivered YC 123_ > > Vehaima Natasiya Zekaarin _née_ Veikitamo Gesakaarin > **Guristas Zakura Echelon** > **Riever Falcon** Our ancestors took to the stars in order to prevent the Federation from turning their children into little Gallenteans. The State is as much a product of the Caldari people as the Megas and the Raata Empire of old. The failure of the contemporary leadership does not invalidate, in any way, the traditions which our people have upheld since time immemorial. Traditions which the Guristas forsook when they deserted from the Caldari Navy. No true Caldari would prefer living with traitors over being with their own, regardless of how dire the circumstances may be. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > The Guristas are still ostensibly Caldari with Caldari attitudes. If they were Caldari with Caldari attitudes, they would not be Guristas. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > The key difference is choice The Caldari citizens from the Wirashoda system who boarded Guristas ships which were disguising themselves as evacuation vessels were not given any choice. They were deceived and are still unaccounted for. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > This is different to as in the State corporate system where a confluence of social factors like tradition, morality, and the family you were born into keep people in a stratified hierarchy exploited by others. A life without tradition and morality is not worth living. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > The audience were working class citizens of the State not academics requiring my defense of thesis, so I consider my analogy apt enough for the purpose where the dereliction of the duties of Megacorporate leadership was more implied and less tacit. I am working class and even I can make a distinction between dereliction of duty and incompetence. To my knowledge there is no evidence of the former. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > As every successful Guristas raid and heist upon the corrupt State corporations have shown, when the whole structure of the State is so rotten to the core it becomes all too easy to kick a few walls in with minimal effort. If all it takes for you to commit your hostility towards our people in writing is a prod from Diana Kim, you have no right to speak of wit. > [@Tanagura\_Amoii](#): > > Was the State actually less effective at repelling the Triglavians than any of the other empires; or, is the issue that performing only as well (or poorly) as everyone else is itself a failing? [Despite the best that has been done by everyone–the gallant fighting of our military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of out servants of the State and the devoted service of our people, the Triglavian situation has developed not necessarily to our people’s advantage.](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/invasion-results-by-region-now-that-the-dust-has-seemingly-settled/270563/84) > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > It’s one of many reasons why so many come to join the ranks of the Guristas: the lack of desire to participate in a system that is rigged against personal success by those who already inherited their wealth, status and power. Where people are told their failures are their own, and not that of a corrupt system which readily exploits their personal labour and talents for the advantage of a conceited corporate elite. Even if we assume that holds true, casting your lot in with a bunch of traitors who behave like vultures picking on the State at every opportunity is the most counterproductive notion imaginable. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > If Guristas losses are so colossal and yet Guristas assets continue to exist within State borders then those losses are survivable and within the capacity of the organization to absorb. I accept this as a personal challenge and look forward to being set to -10. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Why would we in the Guristas want to do that? There’s no profit in fighting people on their own terms and when they expect it, and piracy is a business in the end. Just because Caldari like you care about silly notions like ‘honour’ or farting into the Winds over ‘Heiian’ doesn’t mean those among the ranks of Guristas really give much a damn about it. If the Guristas do not care about honour or the practice of Wayism, they have no right to speak about what is best for the Caldari people, nor should any sane Caldari look to them for deliverance. > [@Jennifer\_Maxwell](#): > > I’ve seen enough drug dens filled with children, brothels filled with slaves, and snuff “entertainment” facilities filled with kidnapped civilians and captured Navy personnel, all run by the Guristas, that I can easily toss all your flowery but empty words in the trashcan. I encourage you to report the locations of said places to the authorities so that something can be done about the practices which take place within them. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Naval and other members of the SAF do tend to be focus of outlets by those who were once oppressed know exacting their toll upon their oppressors. Tit for tat, what can you do – it’s not like Guristas captured by the State can expect a warm bed to sleep in with three square meals. Treason should be punished with death, so expending resources in that manner would be wasteful. > [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > Abide by international ruling regarding war and prisioners, either by a moral imperative or at least an effort to avoid an escalation that completely degrades the social fabric? The Gallente do not adhere to international rulings regarding prisoners of war, so why do you expect anything better from the Guristas, who are a criminal organization led by entrepreneurial deserters and staffed by the desperate? > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Guristas don’t measure a person by what they’re entitled to, but by what they have earned. SAF prisoners usually earn a bullet to the back of the head, if lucky. And this is why you lot deserve nothing but a 425mm Railgun hit to the crew compartment. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > I have no idea what happens in the other cells but nation building is not anywhere on the agenda of my own. Then why was the first post in this thread intended to convince workers to abandon their own people in favour of entangling themselves in something worse? > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Also, I’ll be honest: I was never arguing in favour of making something better. I was giving a speech in my initial post, and in order to be convincing to my audience at the time I had to speak with authenticity and honesty to what I know. I was expounding on what I felt was an already existent sense of grievance among those I spoke to, and I was not offering to build a better future, I was offering the strength to pursue one thing only: revenge. > > Because that’s my truth, and that’s the truth I spoke. I saw in the people of that crowd the same desire in me. To seek vengeance on those who lied, who abused their trust, and who failed in their duty. A State which discarded those they saw as no longer of any use or fit for purpose, and who balk when those that they denigrated make them bleed in turn. So you lied to a crowd in order to obtain cannonfodder. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > In the end, my anger and rage at what Kaalakiota and the Navy did to me has yet to subside, so I remain willing to walk my path of revenge regardless of what the price in lives and blood costs me. I cannot forget nor can I forgive what was done to me. The Megas of the State have always provided their citizens with what they require. You had the option to receive treatment for your condition and return to your post. You chose not to do so and were heartbroken when the consequences of your decision caught up to you. The Guristas exploited that moment to recruit you. You took the bait in order to preserve what was left of your psyche. Now you seek to do to those who suffered during the Triglavian war, that which the Guristas did to you. Turn them into egotistical agents of entropy and greed bent on dismantling everything the Caldari people have built for their own gain. > [@Vehaima\_Zekaarin](#): > > Well, two of my goals with my post was public viewership and personal notoriety – objectives I feel have been accomplished. I suppose that once you’ve hit rock bottom the only way is up. > [@Durant\_Aristide](#): > > You are more than just prawns to the unyielding authorities of the megacorporations. The days when the self-appointed defenders of justice could tell us how to live are over. We are a free people, and we will command our lands and our families as we deem fit. > [@Durant\_Aristide](#): > > Kybernauts aren’t qualified to make judgments on moral character. In this instance her judgment aligns with mine. We do not involve ourselves in Aristidian affairs. Keep your nose out of Caldari matters. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/112 "2021-04-25T21:41:13Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > The days when the self-appointed defenders of justice could tell us how to live are over. Actually, appears to me more like self-appointed defenders of _injustice_, considering he came in to root for Gurista. And who are guristas if not just a primitive pirates? One can’t defend justice even with self-appointment and support the petty pirates at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Miran\_Tereven](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/miran_tereven/32/383453_2.png) [@Miran\_Tereven](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Miran_Tereven)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2021, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/113 "2021-04-26T05:50:45Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Actually, appears to me more like self-appointed defenders of _injustice_ No, because I was referring to the Gallente fellow, and Gallente love their buzzwords. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/114 "2021-04-28T06:15:10Z")
> [@Miran\_Tereven](#): > > No, because I was referring to the Gallente fellow, and Gallente love their buzzwords. And still he was defending injustice and rather primitive pirates. ---
**Author:** ![Korsavius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/korsavius/32/391994_2.png) [@Korsavius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Korsavius)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/115 "2021-04-28T13:28:39Z")
For all the personal and ideological differences we shared while you were a State Patriot, I knew that ultimately our actions were guided by the shared goal of advancing the Caldari State. It is disappointing that now in times of great need you choose to abandon your fellow citizens to join forces with a pirate organization dedicated dismantling everything the Caldari State is. By no means am I saying the State is perfect and incapable of making errors, but part of the identity of what it means to be Caldari is the notion of continuous improvement. As for me, I decide to remain firmly aligned with the ideals and values of the State and my fellow citizens. There is much work to be done in the days, months, and perhaps years ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Kouros\_Jaikunen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kouros_jaikunen/32/270002_2.png) [@Kouros\_Jaikunen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kouros_Jaikunen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/116 "2021-04-28T18:19:30Z")
Ancestor’s choke, can’t believe I missed this! Well, glad to have ya onboard pilot Zekaarin. The more the merrier! Maybe we can enjoy the celebration of you switchin’ sides in a nice bar in Venal, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/117 "2021-04-28T18:35:29Z")
> [@Kouros\_Jaikunen](#): > > sides in a nice bar in Venal, eh? I like to take the oppertunity to approve of the patronizing of local Venal Businesses ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/118 "2021-04-28T18:40:44Z")
> [@Kouros\_Jaikunen](#): > > Ancestor’s choke, can’t believe I missed this! Well, glad to have ya onboard pilot Zekaarin. The more the merrier! Maybe we can enjoy the celebration of you switchin’ sides in a nice bar in Venal, eh? What, does this Maker-forsaken cesspit still have working bars? If the more the merrier don’t mind me joining too? With a relatively small company of good friends… ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/119 "2021-04-28T18:44:12Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > With a relatively small company of good friends… So long as they’re paying customers that don’t skip on their tab. … In before some sly vague comment about paying in bullets, explosive or some such. ---
**Author:** ![Kouros\_Jaikunen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kouros_jaikunen/32/270002_2.png) [@Kouros\_Jaikunen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kouros_Jaikunen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2021, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474/120 "2021-04-28T19:40:01Z")
Paying in bullets and explosions would be so uncivilized…the very same uncivility Commander Dear Kimmie detests! Oh the irony! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-lies-of-the-caldari-state/296474.md?page=7)