# The market is not under player control **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 24, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575 "2021-01-24T02:48:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/21 "2021-01-24T06:07:38Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > [@Darthmolor](#): > > > > Meanwhile CCP pockets that 370 dollars in value. > > You’re operating on a lot of assumptions here. > > First of all, there’s no external money transfer outside of the game. Second, players make in-game money/resources at wildly varying rates. Third, players don’t _only_ play to replace losses; if someone doesn’t take a loss “worth 370 dollars,” they may or may not _still_ play the game for other reasons. Fourth, EVE assets (outside of PLEX) hold no book value for CCP, as they can’t liquidate them. > > Saying that a loss worth $370 means CCP pockets $370 is way out in la-la land. Facebook calls their database an intangible asset. It has value there is no transfer outside of the database to money. The value is in the data itself inside the database because people give it value. A patent is value as well. Another intangible asset. It’s in your mind, and no where else, it can’t be transferred into money. But it has value, its transferred out using your time to write it down and send it to the patent office. A 500MN Microdrive in game has no real world value, when you built it thats when it has value as you spent your time to make it. I am another player and I need one but i don’t want to spend my time in game earning the isk to buy it, so i buy plex. Now lets say i did earn isk, i spent time my purchased game time mining for the isk to buy it. My game time and my personal time was converted into value. So i can use real world money to buy my game time, or i can use more of my in game time and personal time to buy plex with isk which gives me more subscription time and access to machinery that will make production easier and save me personal time. The conversion to real world money happens at a point where you’re valuing your time. Its several degrees of separation but that’s what CCP wanted from day one. The reality of destruction being profit with them may cause people to stop playing the game. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/22 "2021-01-24T06:11:19Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > Total value : 35.8 billion isk or 470 dollars worth of isk. You’re using numbers on a 3rd party website as evidence that the market in EVE Online is controlled by CCP? ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/23 "2021-01-24T06:12:06Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > > [@Darthmolor](#): > > > > Total value : 35.8 billion isk or 470 dollars worth of isk. > > You’re using numbers on a 3rd party website as evidence that the market in EVE Online is controlled by CCP? It doesn’t matter i am sure insurance did not pay him the whole value of that ship, regardless of the exact numbers. It’s being used as an example, the exact figures are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/24 "2021-01-24T06:14:05Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > it doesn’t matter i am sure insurance did not pay him the whole value of that ship The ship wasn’t purchased with $. It has no $ value. The values zkill and media coverage of big fights applies are just for epeening, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/25 "2021-01-24T06:14:22Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > It doesn’t matter i am sure insurance did not pay him the whole value of that ship, regardless of the exact numbers. It’s being used as an example, the exact figures are irrelevant \>still using a **THIRD PARTY WEBSITE** as the basis for making a dumb claim that has zero supporting evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/26 "2021-01-24T06:16:10Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > > [@Darthmolor](#): > > > > It doesn’t matter i am sure insurance did not pay him the whole value of that ship, regardless of the exact numbers. It’s being used as an example, the exact figures are irrelevant > > \>still using a **THIRD PARTY WEBSITE** as the basis for making a dumb claim that has zero supporting evidence. Your using a strawman and only supporting it with my own example which means nothing. I could have used any ship or any figures. You want to defeat me using your brains not irrelevant figures. Trolling for a thread shutdown? ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/27 "2021-01-24T06:17:37Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Darthmolor](#): > > > > it doesn’t matter i am sure insurance did not pay him the whole value of that ship > > The ship wasn’t purchased with $. It has no $ value. The values zkill and media coverage of big fights applies are just for epeening, nothing more. So your saying no one would buy that ship with isk? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/28 "2021-01-24T06:17:53Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > Your using a strawman \>doesn’t know what a “strawman” is lmaoooo ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/29 "2021-01-24T06:18:53Z")
Your using it now because you think the original argument is to hard to defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/30 "2021-01-24T06:19:30Z")
I don’t think you fully understand how the PLEX market works. The demand for PLEX isn’t infinite. It theoretically caps out at the total amount of players that wish to be subscribed (plus a small margin for those who use it entirely as a speculative tool), and it would lose its in-game value to almost nothing _way_ before that limit is reached. Believing each loss to have a tangible financial value for CCP because someone will go out and buy PLEX to replace it **only** works if you look at each loss in isolation, and not when you evaluate the system as a whole. When you look at the system as a whole, you can see that that particular PLEX sale would drive down the overall ISK value of PLEX by virtue of increasing its supply, and decreasing its demand, meaning that it would have an effect on subsequent PLEX purchases. A lot of people don’t seem to understand that PLEX exists in an equilibrium like all other financial instruments, and that CCP can’t magically keep printing money forever with PLEX sales just by virtue of players wanting to trade it for ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/31 "2021-01-24T06:20:30Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > So your saying no one would buy that ship with isk? In game ISK, sure. So what? How does CCP profit off it? In almost every MER, bounties and insurance combined exceed destruction. Every month literally trillions of ISK is just invented out of thin air and added to the game. Even destruction generates ISK. How does CCP profit from making ISK enter the game faster than it leaves? ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/32 "2021-01-24T06:21:08Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > Your using it now \>still doesn’t know what a “strawman” is, but has seen enough psuedo online “debates” that he knows a **buzzword** or two and thinks he can just throw it out randomly like a dumb high school kid hoping his teacher would accept his lack of knowledge as correct Edit: it’s been like 2 minutes and i’m already bored of this MAGA level intellect child. oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/33 "2021-01-24T06:24:02Z")
I like what your saying, its better talking to you then these knuckleheads who are too lazy to have a thought. Yes, your right, its not reasonable to think that someone would just buy plex to replace that ship. But people would expend time to replace that ship. As i said before time is the means on which value is transferred. Time is money after all. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/34 "2021-01-24T06:25:32Z")
And it is good that the markets are not under full player control. Even the additional control by allowing TTT to emerge was a huge mistake that made EVE worse as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/35 "2021-01-24T06:29:24Z")
Full disclosure, I am exploiting a cognitive bias to make my point when I say “Time is money”, it is far more complex then that. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/36 "2021-01-24T06:30:50Z")
> [@Darthmolor](#): > > But people would expend time to replace that ship But, the characters that would mine, mission, produce and sell, market trade, etc. would have paid their subscription anyway. The loss of a Titan or super won’t change that. CCP aren’t going to be making more money in any way we can measure, just because of losses. There is already an excess of ISK in game. ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/37 "2021-01-24T06:31:09Z")
> [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > And it is good that the markets are not under full player control. Even the additional control by allowing TTT to emerge was a huge mistake that made EVE worse as a whole. I will have to read up more on the history of ccp mistakes. ---
**Author:** ![Darthmolor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darthmolor/32/247828_2.png) [@Darthmolor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darthmolor)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/38 "2021-01-24T06:33:09Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Darthmolor](#): > > > > But people would expend time to replace that ship > > But, the characters that would mine, mission, produce and sell, market trade, etc. would have paid their subscription anyway. The loss of a Titan or super won’t change that. > > CCP aren’t going to be making more money in any way we can measure, just because of losses. There is already an excess of ISK in game. In the economic reports destruction is the first value tabulated. Are you so sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/39 "2021-01-24T06:41:30Z")
Let me try to break it down into a pseudo-formula/logical chain: current economic equilibrium ⬇ more destruction/less gain (both ISK and resources) ⬇ overall economic deflation ⬇ PLEX value falls (takes less ISK/resources to buy it from others) ⬇ less PLEX purchased (PLEX is less attractive) ⬇ PLEX ISK/resource value rises (lower supply) ⬇ new economic equilibrium is reached Keep in mind that as was mentioned above by others, players who want to subscribe are likely to do it _regardless_ of the method of subscription. So any slack in, or overabundance of, PLEX subscriptions will be integrated into cash subscriptions. CCP’s overall revenue will remain the same, plus/minus some minor offsets due to cash sub/PLEX price differences, players quitting, etc. The only tangible way that destruction has an effect of CCP’s bottom line is by virtue of modifying the amount of players who want to play the game, and not due to the intrinsic value of EVE assets. ---
**Author:** ![Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oriki_ahvilen/32/395043_2.png) [@Oriki\_Ahvilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oriki_Ahvilen)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2021, 6:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575/40 "2021-01-24T06:50:57Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/d/5dab4fa0ca2c7bd90ce60b139f44d122aa870bdb.gif) This would only be valid if you wouldn’t be able to print ISK and spawn minerals out of nothing. Your argument that you invest time here has no meaning , it’s time for a video game … time you already waste voluntarily for entertainment . [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-market-is-not-under-player-control/291575.md?page=3)