# The menace of subcap proliferation **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 26, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468 "2018-09-26T16:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/43 "2018-09-28T16:52:31Z")
Well good, glad we drilled down past the pointless BS, and got to your real beef. Honest discussion is always best, whether we agree or disagree on things. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/44 "2018-09-29T21:15:23Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > I constantly hear about the menace of capship proliferation. Well, what I want to talk about here today is the big elephant in the room that, for some strange unknown reason, nobody seems to notice. I mean, I just don’t understand how you could notice a flea next to you, and freak the hell out about that flea, but not notice the gigantic elephant standing right on top of you. > > That gigantic elephant that I want us to acknowledge is subcap proliferation. Because I literally, and I do mean _LITERALLY_ , see subcaps everywhere I go in Eve. And the more ‘sub’ the subcap is, the more I see them (e.g. frigates and cruisers thick as flies). It isn’t an understatement to say that for every capship I’ve ever seen in Eve, I’ve seen tens of thousands of subcaps. > > What are we going to do about this? This isnt a problem it is EVEs game design. My proposed ‘solution’ then is for you to play a different game. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/45 "2018-09-29T21:18:49Z")
> [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](#): > > This isnt a problem it is EVEs game design. My proposed ‘solution’ then is for you to play a different game. Capships are EvE’s game design too. My proposed ‘solution’ then is for you to play a different game. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/46 "2018-09-29T21:23:08Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > Capships are EvE’s game design too. My proposed ‘solution’ then is for you to play a different game. Please point to my comment and show me where EXACTLY i stated anything about Capships being in anyway wrong. Are comments are not equal, mine was an accurate statement about EVE game design and yours was just pathetic and uninspired. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/47 "2018-09-29T21:30:24Z")
You’re either a troll, or you have reading comprehension issues. This post is about capships. I say they are fine. Others want them removed from the game. You said it’s Eve’s design, and that I should go play a different game. So what, exactly, were you trying to say? As to your name, yes, you have plenty of arrogance, but it certainly isn’t justified. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/48 "2018-09-29T21:33:11Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > That gigantic elephant that I want us to acknowledge is subcap proliferation. Because I literally, and I do mean _LITERALLY_ , see subcaps everywhere I go in Eve. And the more ‘sub’ the subcap is, the more I see them (e.g. frigates and cruisers thick as flies). It isn’t an understatement to say that for every capship I’ve ever seen in Eve, I’ve seen tens of thousands of subcaps. This comes across to my ‘reading comprehension’ as you wanting fewer subcaps, especially since that is exactly what it says. CCP design EVE in such a way that subcaps will always seriously outnumber supers and hence if this is something you dont like, “play a different game”. ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/49 "2018-09-30T03:53:18Z")
> [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](#): > > CCP design EVE in such a way that subcaps will always seriously outnumber supers and hence if this is something you dont like, “play a different game”. 1 - Don’t tell me what to play. I’ll play what I want to play. 2 - You have reading comprehension issues. It’s not that I can’t help you with that… it’s just that, well, I don’t want to. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 10:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/50 "2018-09-30T10:46:19Z")
Careful, he’ll say you may be a troll, a or a mentally ill beggar. He’s not calling you it of course, just that its an option. Im pretty sure he is all of those things, given how angry he gets in a videogame forum. But thats just a possibility. Especially how tryhard his threads about very little are. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/51 "2018-09-30T13:29:19Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > I make in about 2-3 hours carrier ratting which I utterly fkn hate BTW, but have to do for income, what I used to make in incursions in 2-3 weeks. You need to learn market trading. What I make in 20mins a day now dwarfs what I used to make carrier ratting for several hours a day. If you don’t enjoy carrier ratting (neither did I, or any PvE for that matter) you don’t have to do it. Get in touch if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/52 "2018-09-30T15:35:56Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > You need to learn market trading. What I make in 20mins a day now dwarfs what I used to make carrier ratting for several hours a day. If you don’t enjoy carrier ratting (neither did I, or any PvE for that matter) you don’t have to do it. Get in touch if you like. I tried it. Did it for a while but its just not my thing, like mining. I still do some trading here and there and have kept most (but not all) skills on my main business toon but I just really don’t enjoy doing it longterm. Thing I enjoy the most in this game is shooting stuff, both PvP as well as PvE, however, both PvE and PvP got ■■■■■■ up by caps so now I’m greatly limited in what I can do and more importantly where I can do it within the game. For me to play longterm, I have to make decent ISK in order to be able to afford to lose ships and that ISK earning needs to be done doing stuff I enjoy doing and can have fun with. Otherwise playing a game, any game, becomes completely pointless in itself. ---
**Author:** ![Keno\_Skir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/keno_skir/32/460582_2.png) [@Keno\_Skir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Keno_Skir)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/53 "2018-09-30T17:36:45Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > For me to play longterm, I have to make decent ISK in order to be able to afford to lose ships and that ISK earning needs to be done doing stuff I enjoy doing and can have fun with. Sorry, was my understanding you hated carrier ratting with a passion but HAD TO do it to make a living. My thinking is that similarly to me, you may prefer to do something you dislike for 20Mins rather than several hours given the choice. I totally agree however that market trading is one of the least “fun” activities to actually perform. That said my available “game” time (time spent doing things I actually enjoy) has increased dramatically now that the income happens while I do fun stuff rather than instead of it. Each to their own. Hope you find something fun to do 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/54 "2018-09-30T18:54:15Z")
> [@Keno\_Skir](#): > > Sorry, was my understanding you hated carrier ratting with a passion but HAD TO do it to make a living. My thinking is that similarly to me, you may prefer to do something you dislike for 20Mins rather than several hours given the choice. I totally agree however that market trading is one of the least “fun” activities to actually perform. That said my available “game” time (time spent doing things I actually enjoy) has increased dramatically now that the income happens while I do fun stuff rather than instead of it. > > Each to their own. Hope you find something fun to do 🙂 I do hate it. But its the least of the evils 1st because I still can shoot stuff, well, kinda, its still kinda interactive gameplay if you set it up right. 2nd because its so stupid broken that I don’t need to do it very much or for prolonged time periods due to sheer stupid amounts of ISK it provides. So as unfortunate as it is, it is the most I am willing to put up with. I would love to be able to fund everything I actually enjoy doing via other means, but can’t it doesn’t provide enough ISK, if I had a choice I would be all over it, but I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/55 "2018-09-30T22:49:58Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > What’s wrong, exactly, with super cap drops? WOW, we find a point of agreement, there is nothing wrong with super cap drops, they are hilarious! ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/56 "2018-10-01T00:42:04Z")
I feel obliged to let you all know the OP is parodying (quite humorously) another thread and already did so with another thread. Everyone taking this seriously should attend my “How to recognise a troll thread 101” ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/57 "2018-10-01T01:32:06Z")
Even if the OP is… devs may read it thinking its serious. ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/58 "2018-10-01T01:37:41Z")
I feel they are smart and experienced enough to recognise an obvious troll. I could be wrong ---
**Author:** ![Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/beast_of_revelations/32/413187_2.png) [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Beast_of_Revelations)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/59 "2018-10-01T01:40:32Z")
> [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](#): > > I feel obliged to let you all know the OP is parodying (quite humorously) another thread and already did so with another thread. Everyone taking this seriously should attend my “How to recognise a troll thread 101” You are right, and yet you are wrong. Yes, I am (or was) parodying, and I was ‘using absurdity to point out absurdity.’ But I’m _NOT_ trolling, I’m 100% serious about the topic. _NOT_ about the title of the topic (The menace of subcap proliferation) - that’s part of the parody, part of the ‘using absurdity to point out absurdity.’ I’m serious about the _ACTUAL_ topic of the thread, and the actual topic is obvious to anyone with half a brain who actually read the post. I stated this very thing in this thread further up. Quoting myself: > [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > While I said it in a sarcastic or funny way, and other posters picked up on this and left responses in a similar style, I am trying to make an actual point (using sarcasm to do it). That point is this: ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/60 "2018-10-01T02:19:02Z")
> [@Beast\_of\_Revelations](#): > > While I said it in a sarcastic or funny way, and other posters picked up on this and left responses in a similar style, I am trying to make an actual point (using sarcasm to do it). That point is this: > > If so-called ‘capship proliferation’ is considered a ‘menace,’ but subcaps outnumber them 10,000 to 1, and if most players’ experience is that they do in fact see many, many numbers of subcaps for every capship they ever see, then why are subcaps not considered even more of a ‘menace?’ > > Another question. Why do certain players consider capships to be the ‘red-headed stepchildren’ of Eve, which must be treated differently than all other ship classes? For instance, these players believe it is perfectly fine to have literally infinite numbers of frigates and cruisers. There are no possible numbers of frigates and cruisers that could ever raise an eyebrow or make them think they need to be limited somehow, either through game mechanics, price controls, etc. But the red-headed stepchildren of Eve - the capships - are different. See enough of those, and by God, they are a menace! Something needs to be done about them! They need to be controlled! > > What causes this mindset? Although I’d like to think there is some deep, interesting philosophical reasoning behind it, the answer is obvious and simplistic. Some people don’t like capships, for whatever irrational reason. That’s it. That this statement was necessary goes to how poorly sarcasm can be picked up by others on a forum. That this statement had to be made also goes to how poorly you personally are able to convey sarcasm on a forum. Also, if this post does in fact, as someone else claims, reference a post other readers & posters to this topic may never have read also makes understanding that it is a sarcastic post difficult or impossible and again shows a shortcoming on behalf of the poster to properly convey sarcasm. Further, the obtuse introduction of the topic owing to the OPs poor attempt at sarcasm has lead to extraneous discussion that just confuses the topic and its discussion even more. Given all these failures on behalf of the original poster I would advice posting what you actually want to discuss in the future and leave the literary tricks to those better suited to convey it. ---
**Author:** ![JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/justified_arrogance/32/263131_2.png) [@JUSTIFIED\_ARROGANCE](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JUSTIFIED_ARROGANCE)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 2:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/61 "2018-10-01T02:25:35Z")
And what is most annoying about this entire discourse between you, me and others lead astray by your poor literary capabilities is that in fact we actually agree 100% that cap proliferation is not an issue in the slightest and is a logical outcome of EVEs design and anyone having an issue with that, “should go play some other game”. ---
**Author:** ![Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noragen_neirfallas/32/375148_2.png) [@Noragen\_Neirfallas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noragen_Neirfallas)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2018, 3:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468/62 "2018-10-01T03:03:43Z")
Perhaps trolling was the wrong word. Still it seems most posters in here have had it whoosh over their heads lol [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-menace-of-subcap-proliferation/109468.md?page=4)