# The Mikramurka Black Dagger Murder **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711 "2021-03-10T19:04:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/41 "2021-03-18T14:26:39Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > And the Kruellefor are a security contractor ? Sometimes. It’s not unknown, after all. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > Hell, my cohort brother has a set of black kri’tak he’s somewhat famous for (and an alibi, thank you very much). Ah, but might someone have _stolen_ one from him? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/42 "2021-03-18T14:27:24Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Ah, but might someone have _stolen_ one from him? No, he still has them, and would have noticed. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/43 "2021-03-18T15:15:26Z")
I also walked through this maze of “too obvious.” Khanid lunatics are too obvious, the new prime minister is too obvious, the newly prominent Kruellefor are too obvious, rogue agents in Republic security agencies are too obvious, CONCORD is too obvious, none of the three iterations of cybernetic abomination would bother with daggers, the Angels and Guristas don’t have a profit motive unless they were hired - but that makes them nothing more than tools, and whoever used them invokes the loop of “too obvious.” Murdering family members is common enough for narco trash that needs spending change quickly, so maybe the elder had a family member who thought injecting engine solvent makes them cool, and I’m sure the Federation’s “candy Sabik” sell dagger knock-offs. But that would be too random. Then I thought “the Elder developed an immunity to being stabbed and faked their own death.” It is important not to take serious situations **too** seriously. But of course the elder did not develop such an immunity, and we return to the second most obvious scenario: it was the new prime minister. Lunatics are not capable of leaving any room for doubt that they are the center of attention, and I am confident this is a Matari story. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/44 "2021-03-19T08:29:54Z")
I’ve been informed by an archaeological acquaintance from the Mandate that black daggers featured in the Vindication Wars. So perhaps I was looking in the wrong direction to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/45 "2021-03-19T15:29:45Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > black daggers featured in the Vindication Wars I had to look that up. Unpleasant details provided on how “ornate black daggers” were used during the period in question, however, fits well with the initial report of this crime. I could also see a desire to avoid reigniting that conflict as grounds for the Republic handling the investigation with care. Kudos to your archaeological acquaintance! Yes, of course this could also be misdirection. But echoing Teinyhr’s point, the Matari roots feel more satisfying than “those @%#$! Amarrians are at it, again.” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/46 "2021-03-19T22:27:33Z")
> [@Tanagura\_Amoii](#): > > the Matari roots feel more satisfying than “those @%#$! Amarrians are at it, again.” Sure, because Matar being attacked by an Amarr splinter group and threatened by at least _two_ maniac followers of radicalized Amarr faith—both times prominently featuring Black Daggers… that’s _totally_ ‘unsatisfying’. Maybe they should’ve thrown in a sundae? ---
**Author:** ![Aram\_Medici](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aram_medici/32/339538_2.png) [@Aram\_Medici](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aram_Medici)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 8:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/47 "2021-03-20T08:12:42Z")
> [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > Shakors Tribal Traditionalist Front, who in collusion with the “Elders” organisation, have an interest in weakening the authority of Tribes and Clans. Why would Shakor’s faction be anti-Tribes and Clans? He lead the coup that overthrew the rightful Parliament and replaced it with this Tribal Council. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/48 "2021-03-20T17:12:27Z")
> [@Aram\_Medici](#): > > Why would Shakor’s faction be anti-Tribes and Clans? He lead the coup that overthrew the rightful Parliament and replaced it with this Tribal Council. A cynical argument could be that Shakor is “Pro Tribe Brutor” more than “Pro Tribe.” I don’t think that is the case, but “Pro Anything But Sebiestor” might come closer to an uncomfortable truth. The affiliation of the victim remains an important missing detail. At least for me - I may have missed an update. ---
**Author:** ![Jocca\_Quinn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jocca_quinn/32/441838_2.png) [@Jocca\_Quinn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jocca_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/49 "2021-03-21T10:07:17Z")
I think it is about time we stopped all this “coup” nonsense. There was no sudden, illegal seizure of power by Shakor. When the Parliament did not act in a timely manner to rescue the Starkmanir from Derelik there was a [vote of no confidence](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/maleatu-shakor-launches-vote-of-no-confidence-measure-passes-republic-parliament/). Midular responded by [dissolving the Parliament!](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/report-karin-midular-dissolves-parliament-ousts-shakor-and-yun-from-government/) (and removed Shakor) A number of criminals and collaborators (probably the ones that mired Parliament in inaction for years) were [removed by forces loyal to The Elder’s](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/report-mass-murders-reported-at-minmatar-republic-government-facilities/) (and by default to the Minmatar people). Midular called first for an Emergency session of Parliament in order to restore the government and then for emergency elections. [Shakor was asked](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/shakor-asked-to-return-as-midular-calls-emergency-election-1/) to return as calls came for the Minmatar to return to a proper form of government for our people. Shakor was nominated for president and then [elected by popular vote.](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/maleatu-shakor-elected-prime-minister-of-minmatar-republic/) In the first step towards the Tribal Republic [Shakor was made Sanmatar](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/shakor-to-be-named-sanmatar/) (incidentally at this point he had to renounce all ties to his former tribe!) So, no coup, just our people ridding ourselves of corrupt officials and foreign influences. Invaders do not always come with lasers and glaive collars or entropic disintegrators and mutaplasmids, they can also come with idea’s and influences (like democracy and republic) that enslave our people just the same. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/50 "2021-03-21T12:24:11Z")
> [@Jocca\_Quinn](#): > > A number of criminals and collaborators (probably the ones that mired Parliament in inaction for years) were [removed by forces loyal to The Elder’s](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/report-mass-murders-reported-at-minmatar-republic-government-facilities/) (and by default to the Minmatar people). You mean a number of individuals were killed without due process. Then the murders were justified with completely uncorroborated ‘evidence’ planted near the bodies by the murderers, a cabal of conspirators loyal to a nebulous organization engaged in a massive campaign of embezzlement and theft from the Minmatar people in pursuit of their own private military agenda, of which Malateu Shakor was an admitted agent. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2021, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/51 "2021-03-21T12:28:05Z")
You conveniently forget to mention those “loyal forces” killed government officials without due process or the involvement of established tribal authority, and that Shakor won an election _where he was the only candidate_. I can follow the argument on a good day that a coup was the only way, or for the best. But I’ll call a spade a spade. ---
**Author:** ![Cain\_Aloga](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cain_aloga/32/457080_2.png) [@Cain\_Aloga](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cain_Aloga)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/52 "2021-03-23T02:48:46Z")
And every one here conveniently forgets that after he won said election, his first action in power was to dismantle the foreign imposed system of government, thereby removing himself from power and paving the way for a system of government wholly our own, that gave power _back_ to the tribes. Yes he was then granted the position of Sanmatar, a ceremonial role with no executive authority outside of what the Tribe Chiefs give him. He had power, and then discorded that power for the good of the tribes. Your chief may have opposed it, mine did not. Or are we getting into the business of questioning the decisions of the Chiefs of other tribes? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/53 "2021-03-23T03:05:52Z")
> [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > And every one here conveniently forgets that after he won said election, his first action in power was to dismantle the foreign imposed system of government, thereby removing himself from power and paving the way for a system of government wholly our own, that gave power _back_ to the tribes. Foreign-_imposed_? I think not. The Gallente gave us the template, but _we_ chose to implement it. And while we did, the Thukker Tribe _left_. While _we_ chose to make a nation, _they_ chose to abandon us… _and Malateu Shakor was their agent1_. Malateu Shakor was involved in embezzling billions, diverting funds into Thukker shipyards at void knows _what_ kind of markup for the construction of ship hulls the Thukkers _should not have had access to_. Make no mistake, I am very glad we have moved to a home-grown system. And I am glad the Thukker have decided to rejoin the rest of the Tribes. But let’s not go pretending they were engaged in some noble dissent while the Republic labored under a system of government that was _forced_ upon us. Nothing was forced upon us. We _chose_ it, and any claims that it was ‘imposed’ upon us is either an error… or a _lie_. > [@Cain\_Aloga](#): > > Or are we getting into the business of questioning the decisions of the Chiefs of other tribes? Getting into it? We Sebiestor are _quite_ used to every single one of the other Tribes questioning every single damned _word_ our Chiefs say, let alone their actual _decisions_. Blood, I’m fairly sure if Acassa Midular ordered dinner in the presence of other Tribes, they’d question _that_ decision, too. And eventually, you’ll get around to calling _her_ a traitor, just like you all did her predecessor. * * * 1. And that’s not an accusation. That’s a **fact**. It’s a fact Malateu Shakor himself has used to his political advantage. After all, he commands a lot of goodwill from the Nefantar and Starkmanir _because_ he was an agent of the Thukker-built Elder Fleet project. So if you want to go getting pissy about me calling him an agent for a bunch of embezzlers and thieves outside the Republic—which would make them **foreign thieves** —stealing Republic funds, I guess you’ll need to get pissy _at him_, because he’s pretty proud of that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Aram\_Medici](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aram_medici/32/339538_2.png) [@Aram\_Medici](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aram_Medici)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/54 "2021-03-23T06:54:31Z")
> [@Jocca\_Quinn](#): > > they can also come with idea’s and influences (like democracy and republic) that enslave our people just the same. It is outrageous that you equate republicanism with slavery and the crimes against nature of the Triglavians. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/55 "2021-03-23T07:00:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > We Sebiestor are _quite_ used to every single one of the other Tribes questioning every single damned _word_ our Chiefs say This. 1 isk for Midular, remember, anyone? But we are free people. We follow our Chiefs, we’re not slaves to them. We have opinions, and we argue and question and quarrel and occasionally fight, even when we in the end follow our blood. Because we _can_. I find it a dangerous thing when the Tribes demand _unquestioning_ loyalty or interpret disagreement as disloyalty. That is the Amarr way, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/56 "2021-03-23T14:34:06Z")
> [@Aram\_Medici](#): > > It is outrageous that you equate republicanism with slavery and the crimes against nature of the Triglavians. Don’t. You want to be outraged, great. Go be outraged. Just don’t expect us to _care_ about your outrage. Or if we do, don’t expect it to go at all well for you. The quickest way to get us _all_ telling you to piss right back off to your little anarchic debating society is sticking _your_ dick into _our_ family argument. We don’t need Gallente telling Matari how we should feel about the ideas of other nations being used for our government, or trying to lecture us on what is or isn’t like slavery. We chose to try it your way. That doesn’t mean we were _right_. We traded the methods and structure of one expansionist power for the methods and structure of the other. ---
**Author:** ![Tanagura\_Amoii](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanagura_amoii/32/310830_2.png) [@Tanagura\_Amoii](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanagura_Amoii)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/57 "2021-03-23T14:55:55Z")
At this point, it may be best for us to leave the Matari to work all of this out on their own. Swing by Nouvelle Hueromont and I’ll pour your a Zima fizz. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/58 "2021-03-23T22:14:23Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That doesn’t mean we were _right_. Doesn’t mean it was wrong either. Anyway, any more news-rumors about that stabberoo debacle or no? ---
**Author:** ![Aram\_Medici](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aram_medici/32/339538_2.png) [@Aram\_Medici](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aram_Medici)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/59 "2021-03-23T23:13:33Z")
I’m sorry you feel this way, based on reading your past posts I had thought I had a like-minded compatriot in the fight for freedom and liberty, I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711/60 "2021-03-24T00:05:09Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > Doesn’t mean it was wrong either. Nope. It certainly doesn’t. Right or wrong, the decision was a product of the time when it was made and the people who made it. > [@Teinyhr](#): > > any more news-rumors about that stabberoo debacle or no? I heard a rumor Vily did it, but I don’t believe it. Does that count? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-mikramurka-black-dagger-murder/299711.md?page=4)