# The Missing PI Data in ESI — A Call to CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 9, 2026, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254 "2026-05-09T00:04:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nutsin_vishwarter/32/498373_2.png) [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nutsin_Vishwarter)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2026, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/1 "2026-05-09T00:04:02Z")
Planetary Industry is one of the deepest and most spreadsheet‑driven systems in EVE Online. For industrialists, logistics planners, and 3rd‑party developers, PI is a data problem as much as it is a gameplay loop. Over the years, ESI has given us access to colony layouts, pin structures, routes, and extractor cycle metadata. But one critical piece of information remains completely inaccessible: > **The total output of an extractor program — the same “Total” value shown in the in‑game extractor UI.** This single missing value prevents full automation of PI planning tools, and forces players to manually transcribe data that the client already calculates. This post explains the gap, why it matters, and what the community needs from CCP. # **What ESI Gives Us Today** ESI currently exposes the following extractor‑related fields: - `cycle_time` - `quantity_per_cycle` - `head_positions` - `install_time` - `expiry_time` - `pin_id`, `type_id`, `planet_id` - colony layout and routing This is useful — but incomplete. ### **The problem:** `quantity_per_cycle` **is not the total program yield.** It is only the _current_ cycle’s output, and it is often `null` until the player opens the planet and hits **Submit**. This makes it unsuitable for: - forecasting - depletion modeling - factory balancing - shortfall/excess calculations - economic planning - automated PI dashboards # **What the Client Knows (But ESI Doesn’t)** The in‑game extractor UI shows: - **Total program output** (e.g., _775,361 units_) - **Average per hour** - **Depletion curve graph** - **Per‑cycle yield decay** - **True total yield for the entire program** This is the exact data PI industrialists need — and the client already has it. But none of it is exposed through ESI. # **Why This Matters** For players running multi‑planet, multi‑character PI networks, this missing value creates a bottleneck: - PI tools cannot calculate accurate extraction totals - Depletion cannot be modeled reliably - Shortfall/excess cannot be automated - Factory chains cannot be balanced automatically - Import/export tax calculations become manual - Profit forecasting becomes guesswork - Players must manually transcribe totals from the UI For many industrialists, this is **hours of manual work per week**. This is not a niche request — it affects anyone who uses PI at scale. # **What the Community Needs** We don’t need the entire depletion curve (though that would be ideal). We don’t need head‑by‑head yield data. We don’t need simulation internals. We only need **one value** : > `total_program_output` **— the total units the extractor program will produce over its full duration.** This value already exists in the client. It is already calculated. It is already displayed. It is already known to the server. Exposing it in ESI would unlock: - fully automated PI dashboards - accurate factory balancing - automated shortfall detection - automated buy‑order generation - accurate 30‑day profit forecasting - elimination of manual data entry This single field would modernize PI tooling overnight. # **A Minimal Proposal** Add a new field to the extractor pin object: json ```auto "program_total_output": 775361 ``` Or, if CCP prefers: json ```auto "estimated_total_output": ``` No need for graphs, curves, or head‑level data. Just the number the client already shows. # **Closing Thoughts** The EVE 3rd‑party development community has built extraordinary tools with the data available — but PI remains the one area where automation hits a hard wall. Adding **total program output** to ESI would: - remove the last major manual step in PI planning - empower industrialists - reduce player frustration - modernize PI tooling - require minimal engineering effort This is a small change with a massive impact. If CCP is open to it, the community is ready to help define the schema, test the endpoint, and integrate it into existing tools. ---
**Author:** ![bdk\_eve](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bdk_eve/32/498378_2.png) [@bdk\_eve](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bdk_eve)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2026, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/2 "2026-05-09T00:07:26Z")
CCP died when Hilmar took over. A lot of people still dont realise. Thats to his credit i guess 😃 Even the rebranding didnt seem to phase most people. TL;DR Its FC not CCP now. But everything else stays the same. For better or worse. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nutsin_vishwarter/32/498373_2.png) [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nutsin_Vishwarter)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2026, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/3 "2026-05-26T19:47:32Z")
Are FC Devs going to reply to my post, seems like it’s being ignored. this is a simple request for data to make life easy. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2026, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/4 "2026-05-26T19:51:43Z")
highly unlikely.. ---
**Author:** ![Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nutsin_vishwarter/32/498373_2.png) [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nutsin_Vishwarter)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2026, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/5 "2026-05-27T20:48:56Z")
Thanks Geo, I’ll continue to bump it…see where it goes 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2026, 8:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/6 "2026-05-27T20:56:12Z")
> [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](#): > > This single missing value prevents full automation Good! ---
**Author:** ![Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nutsin_vishwarter/32/498373_2.png) [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nutsin_Vishwarter)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2026, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/7 "2026-06-11T15:18:32Z")
Bump, would still like this one little thing looked at 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elathy\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elathy_maricadie/32/379496_2.png) [@Elathy\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elathy_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/8 "2026-06-11T15:46:34Z")
> [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](#): > > **The problem:** `quantity_per_cycle` **is not the total program yield.** You’re correct in that this data is meaningless, at least in terms of the Excel Add-in, unless some website is tracking this data in real time. If tracking this in real time, given enough data collected you can create an approximation of the decay rate - does not require FC to provide a data point for this data. That said, there is the issue of PI data not being updated if it’s not being interacted with in-game. My suggestion would be to change that specific data point to be `total_program_output` and with the existing data points you can calculate the `avg_quantity_per_cycle` No other data point need to be added or changed. FC can just release the formula, or an aproximation, for the `per_cycle_decay_rate`. ---
**Author:** ![Pure\_Capitalist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pure_capitalist/32/502764_2.png) [@Pure\_Capitalist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pure_Capitalist)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2026, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/9 "2026-06-11T18:43:44Z")
Don’t expect the God’s to bother with helping. They’re busy doing what God’s do… ---
**Author:** ![Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nutsin_vishwarter/32/498373_2.png) [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nutsin_Vishwarter)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2026, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/10 "2026-07-26T11:33:44Z")
Thanks for the reply—that’s actually a really interesting way of looking at it. I agree that `total_program_output` would probably provide far more value than simply exposing another instantaneous value like `quantity_per_cycle`. With the existing `install_time`, `expiry_time` and `cycle_time`, we’d already have enough information to calculate average output per cycle, per hour and per day, which would cover the vast majority of planning tools. Where I think I’d differ slightly is that I’d be hesitant to replace or redefine `quantity_per_cycle`, as that could potentially break existing consumers of the API. I’d rather see `total_program_output` added as an additional field alongside the existing data so it’s completely backwards compatible. From my perspective, the biggest win isn’t necessarily reproducing CCP’s (FC’s) exact depletion graph—it’s being able to accurately forecast production. Tools like the one I’m building currently have to estimate extractor output or rely on manual overrides because ESI doesn’t expose the total expected yield shown in-game. Having access to that one value would dramatically improve production planning, sustainability calculations, replenishment planning and logistics without exposing anything players can’t already see in the client. Saving me and many others the pain of 2-3 hours of manual capture. The stale PI data issue is definitely a separate challenge, but I don’t think it diminishes the value of exposing the total program output. Even if the data only updates when a colony is interacted with, knowing the original expected yield would still be enough to build much more accurate forecasting models than we can today. So I think we’re broadly on the same page—the smallest change with the biggest impact would simply be adding `total_program_output` to the existing `extractor_details` object. ---
**Author:** ![Meridan\_Night](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meridan_night/32/488304_2.png) [@Meridan\_Night](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meridan_Night)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2026, 1:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-missing-pi-data-in-esi-a-call-to-ccp/511254/11 "2026-07-27T01:20:09Z")
> [@Nutsin\_Vishwarter](#): > > I’ll continue to bump it Oh goodie!