# The Orca

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809>\
**Category:** General Discussion\
**Tags:** pve\
**Created:** [July 4, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809 "2021-07-04T20:45:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 57

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Raace\_D\_harun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raace_d_harun/32/301214_2.png) [@Raace\_D\_harun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raace_D_harun)\
**Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1144 "2021-08-17T23:18:59Z")

</div>

As someone who “grew” into their Orca it’s a balance between loiter time (not “quite” AFK, but pretty much AFK) and safety combined with an acceptable income rate.

Venture’s are weak, mine slow and don’t really have adequate drone capabilities.

The Endurance is basically a low-sec miner and for the ISK to purchase one you might as well buy a retriever; the issue here is that it’s easily popped (though if you can mine for a good few hours you can rake in about 30-40 million ISK/day, so it’s easily replaceable if not popped in the first week of ownership).

The Mackinaw is basically “the exhumer” at this time, “okay” loiter time and incredible (40k EHP) tank basically means as long as you are sitting at the PC doing something else with the audio on you can usually overheat hardeners and make it out; the issue here is that you can generally only make around 50-60 million ISK in a day and for 330+ million that is some serious investment considering.

Then you have the Orca, at 300k EHP and slightly lower yield the loiter time on it means you can actually study or watch a movie with a few memorized clicks to cycle between 'roids and is even capable of enough offensively at 300-500 DPS to ward off most smaller ships that would pester it.

Hell, I just mine while coding + WFH; pulls in about 58~ million ISK/day and I can walk away to use the loo or cook dinner and know it’ll be there when I come back (especially in a 0.8 system).

If they nerf the Orca, I’ll just switch back to using the Mackinaw; ideally though I would like to see mining mechanics just overall changed vs adjusting the Orca to encourage a more active play-style.

What that looks like… I don’t know, and if CCP adjusts how mining functions negatively you’ll see the rest of the game change with it as the Hi-sec materials are used in pretty much every piece of created content (ships, modules, structures, etc.)

If Orca’s truly are a problem (which I am dubious of considering the initial 1.8-2b ISK investment to get one and their overall daily yield) then just remove the 100% mining role bonus and double all of the exhumer ore hold’s and tack on an additional cycle reduction or additional yield increase to strips to offset the 300m+ investment in a Mack.

The other solution would be halve the structure on the Orca which should put it within gank range for coordinated groups or remove both of it’s low fitting points.

Mining is generally “work”, it’s the least fun aspect to Eve’s crafting system but it’s also one of the few relaxing activities where you can just chill and talk to corp mates or plan industrial chains or work on buy-orders etc. while generating some ISK on the side. It’s a passive activity at heart that is sadly abused like most content in Eve by multi-boxer’s (which IMHO, is a much larger issue that I don’t believe CCP is willing to handle).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\
**Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1145 "2021-08-17T23:32:51Z")

</div>

> [@Raace\_D\_harun](#):
>
> double all of the exhumer ore hold

So people can afk longer right?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Raace\_D\_harun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raace_d_harun/32/301214_2.png) [@Raace\_D\_harun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raace_D_harun)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1146 "2021-08-18T01:57:28Z")

</div>

It really depends on what you mean by “AFK mining”; if you mean targeting rocks and activating modules and walking away then your not really going to be AFK due to how little yield is in each rock.

One of the tricks with the Orca to really have good AFK time is to put one drone per roid and just park it near the rocks, but with an Exhumer you can’t lock up more than 6 targets and double strips on a single rock will drastically lower your yield due to the long cycle time and the potential to eat it before both cycles finish.

Doubling up the ore hold means it can just sit on-site longer which honestly benefits both the gankers and the miner and allows for higher reward in the event it is popped; and it’s not even like I am hard up for that, I would be perfectly fine with reduced cycle times and same ore hold. ISK is printed based on the yield and cycle time, ore hold just is a QoL metric and the distance between dumping which with upwell structures is pretty short compared to docking and dumping (\< 20 seconds easy).

To efficiently mine you need to be at the PC, that’s just the facts; even with one drone per rock you are looking at MAX 8-15 minutes of true AFK before you need to come back and target a new rock. With an Exhumer it’s about 4-10 minutes and chances are you’ll over-mine the rock within a cycle window and drop some yield (this is kind of where the Orca also stands out a bit).

No one wants to AFK mine, I promise you that; if I could eat an entire rock in a single cycle I would legit plan my day around that and let the ISK rain by getting a hauler toon.

Absolutely nothing wrong IMHO with letting miners loiter on a belt, Hi-sec mining is literally the lowest ISK/hr activity for solo; CCP could combat multi-boxing by having a form of on-grid threat-index, the more mining activity in a belt just spawn harder rats.

You could spam Lvl3 missions and make more ISK/hr than a single Orca and Lvl4’s aren’t really all that difficult and would easily earn you 2-3x more; just snag some salvage drones and a mobile tractor unit and you are good to go.

For reference, this was a fairly active Orca mining session while I worked today (this was also an entire belt; though on the smaller end)

| Timestamp | Ore Type | Quantity | Volume | Est. Price |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 2021.08.17 | Veldspar | 138377 | 13837.7 | 1385153 |
| 2021.08.17 | Scordite | 56683 | 8502.45 | 871217 |
| 2021.08.17 | Rich Plagioclase | 582759 | 203965.65 | 19778840 |
| 2021.08.17 | Plagioclase | 44715 | 15650.25 | 1410758 |
| 2021.08.17 | Massive Scordite | 350538 | 52580.7 | 5524478 |
| 2021.08.17 | Dense Veldspar | 1171771 | 117177.1 | 12936351 |
| 2021.08.17 | Condensed Scordite | 166148 | 24922.2 | 2591908 |
| 2021.08.17 | Concentrated Veldspar | 478464 | 47846.4 | 4918609 |
| 2021.08.17 | Azure Plagioclase | 117113 | 40989.55 | 3810857 |

and here was an AFK-ish day with a Mackinaw and toying around with a Prospect

| Timestamp | Ore Type | Quantity | Volume | Est. Price |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 2021.07.26 | Viscous Pyroxeres | 99076 | 29722.8 | 3078291 |
| 2021.07.26 | Veldspar | 46757 | 4675.7 | 468037 |
| 2021.07.26 | Solid Pyroxeres | 11593 | 3477.9 | 298867 |
| 2021.07.26 | Scordite | 19786 | 2967.9 | 304110 |
| 2021.07.26 | Pyroxeres | 5416 | 1624.8 | 125272 |
| 2021.07.26 | Pure Jaspet | 1047 | 2094 | 489409 |
| 2021.07.26 | Pristine Jaspet | 1641 | 3282 | 987110 |
| 2021.07.26 | Massive Scordite | 399672 | 59950.8 | 6298830 |
| 2021.07.26 | Luminous Kernite | 718 | 861.6 | 109214 |
| 2021.07.26 | Fiery Kernite | 537 | 644.4 | 100424 |
| 2021.07.26 | Dense Veldspar | 1497689 | 149768.9 | 16534486 |
| 2021.07.26 | Condensed Scordite | 95998 | 14399.7 | 1497568 |
| 2021.07.26 | Concentrated Veldspar | 311807 | 31180.7 | 3205375 |

and here is an AFK day with the Orca where I was busy at work

| Timestamp | Ore Type | Quantity | Volume | Est. Price |
| --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 2021.08.15 | Veldspar | 89433 | 8943.3 | 895224 |
| 2021.08.15 | Scordite | 15777 | 2366.55 | 242492 |
| 2021.08.15 | Rich Plagioclase | 87032 | 30461.2 | 2953866 |
| 2021.08.15 | Plagioclase | 11557 | 4044.95 | 364623 |
| 2021.08.15 | Massive Scordite | 121613 | 18241.95 | 1916620 |
| 2021.08.15 | Dense Veldspar | 418397 | 41839.7 | 4619102 |
| 2021.08.15 | Condensed Scordite | 43617 | 6542.55 | 680425 |
| 2021.08.15 | Concentrated Veldspar | 264795 | 26479.5 | 2722092 |
| 2021.08.15 | Azure Plagioclase | 23761 | 8316.35 | 773182 |

Anyone AFK mining isn’t making ISK, if your “worry” is about belt loiter time… I don’t see how decreasing the time miners spend in a belt vs warping to a tethered structure and just dumping the ore and returning back to a saved point will improve anything.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1147 "2021-08-18T02:44:57Z")

</div>

> [@Raace\_D\_harun](#):
>
> and here is an AFK day with the Orca where I was busy at work

Pretends miners don’t mine AFK, uses his income while mining AFK all day as ‘proof’.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Raace\_D\_harun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/raace_d_harun/32/301214_2.png) [@Raace\_D\_harun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Raace_D_harun)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1148 "2021-08-18T03:51:37Z")

</div>

I was roughly as AFK as a fleet was at TiDi; I don’t see the argument being made here.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Vekku\_Dradis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vekku_dradis/32/463196_2.png) [@Vekku\_Dradis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vekku_Dradis)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1149 "2021-08-18T03:51:59Z")

</div>

> [@Raace\_D\_harun](#):
>
> The Mackinaw is basically “the exhumer” at this time

👍 Agreed! If one really wants to mine they should get a Mackinaw! Super tough and good yield. Really you can pretty much go semi-afk and still make lots of isk if you have a Mack with little problem! (but shh)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1150 "2021-08-18T05:35:40Z")

</div>

I literally said I was mining AFK for 3 HOURS, and then Race O’Bannon turns up to say its not possible. Ffs guys.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1151 "2021-08-18T06:03:31Z")

</div>

This is the important part.

> [@Raace\_D\_harun](#):
>
> One of the tricks with the Orca to really have good AFK time is to put one drone per roid and just park it near the rocks,

Is that what you did, it is really sub-optimal by the way. Perhaps you even tried to mine a rock 30 km away, if you did you would be afk mining for a long time. Maybe you just sat at the 0 spot on the belt and set the drones on the roids for all I know.

So what did you actually do. The player you replied to gave a very detailed reply with his experience, perhaps you need to do the same level of detail as he did.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1152 "2021-08-18T06:07:57Z")

</div>

Yes its what I did, I dont understand why this is hard for people to grasp.

4 x T1 drones 20km from good chunky Scord or Veld, leave to simmer.

Optimal is utterly irrelevent. If you wanted efficient, you wouldnt use an Orca as primary ship anyway. The point of AFKing is to generate _something_, be a blip in local, look busy while doing something less boring instead.

It really doesnt matter if its sub-optimal as Im not competeing with anyone.

(NB it was a Porpoise, after I heard they were less optimal I decided to stick with one rather than go back to the Orca  
Principle is identical though)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lugues\_Slive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugues_slive/32/454530_2.png) [@Lugues\_Slive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugues_Slive)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1153 "2021-08-18T06:12:31Z")

</div>

Exactly my point earlier, AFK mining is not about efficiency, its about down time. Which is why reducing but not removing drone yield is not going to remove the “risk” of AFK mining.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1154 "2021-08-18T06:13:26Z")

</div>

> [@Lugues\_Slive](#):
>
> Exactly my point earlier, AFK mining is not about efficiency, its about down time.

This exactly for me too.

Inefficient mining is still more efficient than not being logged in.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1155 "2021-08-18T06:16:02Z")

</div>

Thanks, no wonder it took you three hours to mine out one Veldspar rock.

By the way it is not that it is difficult to grasp, it just does not make any sense to mine like that.

The Porpoise is really easy to gank by the way.

> [@Lugues\_Slive](#):
>
> Exactly my point earlier, AFK mining is not about efficiency, its about down time. Which is why reducing but not removing drone yield is not going to remove the “risk” of AFK mining.

The imposition of a small ore bay that receives the ore from mining drones that has to be manually moved by the player would solve this issue. The yield of an Orca is less that a mining barge / exhumer in real life experience. Though I was using an Orca and a tanked Skiff with the mining boosts and the Skiff was better, though not by that big a margin.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1156 "2021-08-18T06:20:37Z")

</div>

Well I explained how it does make sense. I dont know why you dont see the logic in it though.

As for easy to gank, its no easier than an Orca or any other industrial ship. Its align is 3 times less than Orca at least. And its cost to replace is far less.

But if I was worried about ganking Id probably just do it in a Tayra or something.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lugues\_Slive](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugues_slive/32/454530_2.png) [@Lugues\_Slive](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugues_Slive)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1157 "2021-08-18T06:22:30Z")

</div>

> [@Dracvlad](#):
>
> The imposition of a small ore bay that receives the ore from mining drones that has to be manually moved by the player would solve this issue

Yep, already agreed with this concept.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1158 "2021-08-18T06:25:00Z")

</div>

It is a red herring, as you are a Brit you most likely understand what that means. So you managed to mine out five Velspar roids over more than three hours by sitting at the zero spot on an asteroid belt, just to prove that you can AFK ore roids. That is the logic as far as I see it.

A Porpoise is a lot easier than to gank than an Orca, easier than the Skiff and Mackinaw too. I just did not use it because it was too easy to gank.

A Tayra does not have drones.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1159 "2021-08-18T06:29:01Z")

</div>

> [@Raace\_D\_harun](#):
>
> It’s a passive activity at heart that is sadly abused like most content in Eve by multi-boxer’s (which IMHO, is a much larger issue that I don’t believe CCP is willing to handle).

And this is the real issue, nice to see that someone else gets it, great posts by the way.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1160 "2021-08-18T06:31:59Z")

</div>

> [@Dracvlad](#):
>
> It is a red herring, as you are a Brit you most likely understand what that means

Well I know what red herring means, but fail to see how it applies. (Im also not a Brit, Im Irish, but you didnt know that so Ill not get insulted 😉 )

I didnt do anything to prove a point, Ive been doing it that way for quite a while.

The logic is that mining while I tidy the house, do the washing and feed the dog gains me more value for my sub than doing those things not logged in. How relatively little it earns compared to active play is whats irrelevent. Mining is boring so I do it with as little dail-fiddling as possible.

A Tayra doesnt need drones. It sits with a mining laser and max cargo instead.

If I could explore or PvE AFK Id do that too tbh.

In regards to ganking again, apart from Porpoises superior escape speed, I dont recall the last time a gank happened in my system while I was logged in. Its not like I fly stuff I cant replace though.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1161 "2021-08-18T06:39:20Z")

</div>

It is just super inefficient, as compared to what an ice mining Orca does for example.

> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#):
>
> In regards to ganking again, apart from Porpoises superior escape speed, I dont recall the last time a gank happened in my system while I was logged in. Its not like I fly stuff I cant replace though.

If you are AFK then the superior escape speed makes no difference. And if you are AFK you would not notice ganks.

In any case if CCP does the small ore bay fix that needs manual interaction then issue is solved, that would be the best way to do it.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1162 "2021-08-18T06:44:16Z")

</div>

> [@Dracvlad](#):
>
> It is just super inefficient, as compared to what an ice mining Orca does for example.

Yeah but that doesnt bother me. A small income stream to buy Magnates with to earn the isk with active play is what I tend to use it for, or even just build the frigates anyway.

AFK mining is more inefficent than Mining, Mining is more inefficent than Exploring, and Exploring is more inefficent than Abyssals. But I dont want to do Abyssals so I do the two things I want.

If I could, Id probably do PI, but Ive no clue how to operate that. Its probably the best AFK isk on the market.

But yeah if they make changes to the Orca and Porpoise to get rid of my tiny stream of rocks, Ill either find another way (see Tayra example or even read a book on PI), or just not be logged in when Ive other stuff to do.

I doubt theyll make mining itself more interesting, so simply forcing a grind will, hopefully mean less people AFK mining, which in turn might make an upturn in prices which might mean my stockpiles may go up again, who knows.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809/1163 "2021-08-18T06:54:23Z")

</div>

What you are doing does not bother me, though it would bother people like CODE players, unless you are perceived as one of them and then you get a free pass. I accept a certain limited AFK play conceptually, I would define what you are doing as being limited. This is why I compared your impact to that of a ice mining AFK Orca which is an issue.

Good luck to you in what you are doing.

PI is not that difficult at all. I used to make a lot of ISK and produced P4’s When I was in Khafis I had hisec and lowsec extraction planets which produced P1 and would run two P4 production planets from imported P1 across six characters. Lowsec was needed for enough of certain P1.

[Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809.md?page=56)

[Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-orca/318809.md?page=58)