# The 'Pay To Win' Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369 "2023-09-08T14:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/242 "2023-09-12T15:29:37Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Then you are still paying to eat. Ah, right…well in that case I’ve just bought the Eifel Tower. The owner might not accept the transaction and I don’t have the actual tower in my possession yet. But heck…I sent £1.67 to France and I consider that payment. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/244 "2023-09-12T16:50:31Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > So he paid for win and lost. Is this supposed to be an argument against the fact that EVE is pay2win or what? Nope. At best it’s an illustration of _caveat emptor_. > [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > The fact that winning is not guaranteed when you pay cash does not mean it is not paying to win. I am certain you realize that because nobody can be that stupid. Anymore than paying for a wardec is a guarantee to have hisec pvp and win it ? Scandalous ! Ask for your money back !! 😘 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/245 "2023-09-12T18:49:47Z")
I attended the minmatar republic school run by the amarr head ganker mistress. ---
**Author:** ![Xucca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xucca/32/373499_2.png) [@Xucca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xucca)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/246 "2023-09-12T20:25:46Z")
Maybe the wrong is in the fact that you can Pay for everything that can be achievable, but cannot achieve everything that’s for sale? (other than dress-up-my-space-dot pitty prize from some silly event -or similar-) I mean, there must be something that makes a non-Pay2Win toon special, recognizable, glorified, unique, respectable… and that no one can buy, ever! (oh!, and in-game tangible, BTW)… like a tabasco infused spear of destiny, or something! Maybe then, there would be peace. Anything! would do… but there is nothing truly valuable… which is quite sad, and says a lot about the lack of creativity that I seldom criticize in EVE. IDK… maybe a rainbow FX when a “purist” toon jumps the gate, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/247 "2023-09-12T21:52:48Z")
The reason I don’t see a problem is that everything has a cost. That cost can be in terms of time, or that cost can be in terms of money. But it is all _cost_ regardless. So what’s the problem ? Arguing that some have more _money_ than others is pointless…as some equally have more _time_ than others. Nobody ever seems to complain ‘hey…Joe over there has twice as much time to mine as I do…its not fair !’. So why complain if Joe has twice as much money or if Joe substitutes money for time ? He’s paying, one way or the other. _Why_ is that a problem ? ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/248 "2023-09-12T22:50:00Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > I mean, there must be something that makes a non-Pay2Win toon special, recognizable, glorified, unique, respectable… and that no one can buy, ever! (oh!, and in-game tangible, BTW)… like a tabasco infused spear of destiny, or something! Something like a reputation and name in EVE ? Unfortunately you can buy even that lol. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/249 "2023-09-12T23:32:26Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > So why complain if Joe has twice as much money or if Joe substitutes money for time ? He’s paying, one way or the other. _Why_ is that a problem ? What you still don’t understand is that no one needs to have a problem with that, it’s still pay2win if they spend money instead of time. You know, because they “pay” to “win” instead of “spending time” to “win”. “win” being whatever goal they try to reach. I bet you still don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/250 "2023-09-12T23:59:31Z")
Maybe the whole problem here is the lack of a term, not the overuse of one. We should introduce “time2win”. It’s when you spend time playing a game in order to win (achieve whatever your goal is). This way, OP can properly look down on players who have actually time to play the game, because they don’t have such a busy life with a successful career, ten kids and a disposable income to spend on games they don’t have time to play, by calling them “time2win” scrubs. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/251 "2023-09-13T00:37:10Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > Unfortunately you can buy even that lol. How does one do that? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/252 "2023-09-13T00:39:04Z")
> [@Xucca](#): > > other than dress-up-my-space-dot pitty prize from some silly event -or similar-) Uh, hello! Mucking about and mastering the character creator/editor is the _true_ end game content of EvE. It is the epitome of EvE achievements. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/253 "2023-09-13T00:56:00Z")
And while we’re at it What’s up with all those outdated board games? You know like… > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Monopoly My ten kids love to play those and I would be glad to join them, but I’m so busy playing golf with bob. So I would like to just occasionally sit down to the running game, and maybe throw a tenner at the bank, you know to get some money, maybe a house that comes with the new starter pack. I don’t have the luxury of time to roll the dice and walk around the board and over start to collect $200! What’s so bad about me wanting to play that game with my kids? This games should go with the times and allow for a more diverse audience with different lifestyles. Also what’s up with the limited avatar options? This game is in dire need of some cosmetic item shop. I want to play as a dragon with cat ears. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/254 "2023-09-13T01:22:25Z")
You can buy character. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/255 "2023-09-13T01:33:35Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You know, because they “pay” to “win” They ‘won’ something ? ![mutley_medal](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/2/c/02c5069d13c7027b3d9c63c781aba86daa7fb535.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/256 "2023-09-13T01:40:15Z")
As in, the character bazaar, or as in, purchasing character traits that make you a good person? ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/257 "2023-09-13T02:09:44Z")
bazaar ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/258 "2023-09-13T05:36:13Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > They ‘won’ something ? Ah, are we back to being confused about the “win”? There is always something ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/259 "2023-09-13T05:47:26Z")
Is purchasing a character off the bazaar considered pay2win? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/260 "2023-09-13T05:58:32Z")
Guess it depends on the characters age. 10 yrs ago I would say most definitely no since the character was created and advanced using established game mechanics, no short cuts available compared to now. Now I’m not so sure, what with all the different SP options available that can be bought with Credit Card money. So yeah, guess it depends on the characters age. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/261 "2023-09-13T06:18:06Z")
You Pay, Someone Wins. 🤓 Guaranteed. P.S. “Golden ammo”, that’s where we tell ourselves the line is. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 6:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/262 "2023-09-13T06:30:03Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > P.S. “Golden ammo”, that’s where we tell ourselves the line is. Man, I bet even about that term we could get a discussion full of cope going. Even in this very thread, we already had someone make excuses around golden ammo with “but it’s not a 100% guaranteed win!” You know, if you buy golden ammo and then still lose, because you suck so much at the game, is it really golden ammo? There is definitely a line somewhere for most people, but for some the cope has no end. Also in honor of the popular strategy of taking words like “win” literally, what if the ammo is not golden but green? They better make it golden and ammo!!! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369.md?page=14)