# The 'Pay To Win' Myth **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369 "2023-09-08T14:03:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/443 "2023-09-24T01:08:06Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > but I don’t see the point in goals who’s end result nobody but you knows about. You don’t have to. Some people don’t need the accolades of others to affirm their personal accomplishments. It separates those that have a grounded sense of self worth, from those that don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 6:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/444 "2023-09-24T06:33:42Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > It separates those that have a grounded sense of self worth, from those that don’t. Ah ! That must be why the King of England, who has never done a day’s grind in his life, lives in a 700 bedroom palace with gold railings at the end of a mile long mall…rather than in an obscure council house in Barrow In Furness. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/445 "2023-09-24T13:00:20Z")
And? Your point? Did the king of England stand at his window and exclaim to the world, “Hey! Look at me! I live in an opulent palace! Look at meeeeee!” No, no he didn’t. His palace is the culmination of a long history of monarchy rule. But Charles isn’t a good example because he’s only held his crown for a short bit. But let’s look at his late mother. She was, for a monarch, a very private person. So is the Emperor of Japan. You don’t see, nor will you be aware of the personal accomplishments of those people because, well, they don’t need the approval of the world and they didn’t/won’t boast about it. It just so happens that the world is _fascinated_ with them. As it appears that you are. Seems to me there’s some jealousy there. Don’t conflate your desire for admiration with how other people live. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > rather than in an obscure council house in Barrow In Furness. So are you saying that people who live in dull, quiet, and pedestrian houses have no self worth or self value and haven’t accomplished anything in their lives? ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/446 "2023-09-24T15:38:27Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > but I don’t see the point in goals who’s end result nobody but you knows about I do. There are some goals that preferably no one can know about. Like infiltrate a corporation, logging all the members of a corporation, their play hours, location, what ship they fly… All that takes planning and preparation. Better no one knows. Like putting a scout alt in a system you want to exploit. Like training into a ship that can counter your enemies capabilities. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > If I make 100 trillion ISK, its of zero relevance to me if nobody knows I have 100 trillion ISK I would rather my opponents not know how rich I am in game. Secrecy is more appealing to me than a pat on the back as far as EVE is concerned. If my opponents don’t know how rich I am, there are more chances they make a mistake and attack me with inappropriate ships. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This is why I care nothing for PvE and ‘winning’ against NPCs PvE is like training to me. If I can’t win against NPCs then I’m not ready to take on a player. Also, fighting NPCs permits me to gauge how well I’ve fitted my ship, tells me all sorts of info about what my ship can really do and what I have understood and what I need to further understand about the mechanics. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I am competitive and the only Eve worth playing for me is one where other people can see that. I see nothing wrong with wanting an audience, although I myself prefer to be discrete. To each his own, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/447 "2023-09-24T15:52:59Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Did the king of England stand at his window and exclaim to the world, > > “Hey! Look at me! I live in an opulent palace! Look at meeeeee!” > > No, no he didn’t. They don’t ? ![Royal-balcony](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/f/c/9fc9febf918dd62b4a520b6625ac1ff602acd85e.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/448 "2023-09-24T15:58:21Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > They don’t ? There’s a difference between being born into royalty and being some no-name that validates themselves by posting on social media every time they fart or pick their nose. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/449 "2023-09-24T15:58:34Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > I do. There are some goals that preferably no one can know about. > Like infiltrate a corporation, logging all the members of a corporation, their play hours, location, what ship they fly… All that takes planning and preparation. Better no one knows. Nobody knows…at the time 🙂 > [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > I would rather my opponents not know how rich I am in game. It depends how rich one is. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/450 "2023-09-24T15:59:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > There’s a difference between being born into royalty and being some no-name that validates themselves by posting on social media every time they fart or pick their nose. Then I suggest you stop doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/451 "2023-09-24T16:02:33Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nobody knows…at the time The best outcome is nobody knows _ever_ 😉 > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > It depends how rich one is I don’t think it does. If I’m poor I’d rather my opponents think I’m rich and vice-versa 😀 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/452 "2023-09-24T16:08:00Z")
> [@Sienna\_Massilia](#): > > The best outcome is nobody knows _ever_ Nah…all those intrigue stories like with The Mittani and other inflitrations ( like the guy who wangled his way into getting some billions of ISK special edition ship ) would never exist if nobody ever spilled the beans. Personally I reveal that I have spied…though I never ever say who I used to _do_ the spying. That’s the forever ( or at least a long time ) bit. ---
**Author:** ![Sienna\_Massilia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sienna_massilia/32/390388_2.png) [@Sienna\_Massilia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sienna_Massilia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/453 "2023-09-24T16:15:03Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Nah…all those intrigue stories like with The Mittani and other inflitrations ( like the guy who wangled his way into getting some billions of ISK special edition ship ) would never exist if nobody ever spilled the beans So true. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Personally I reveal that I have spied…though I never ever say who I used to _do_ the spying. That’s the forever ( or at least a long time ) bit Personally I’m an angel 😇 I never spy, steal or infiltrate… 😇 ever 😇 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/454 "2023-09-24T16:29:44Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > They don’t ? Making social appearances because the public demands and social decorum requires it, is a far cry different then going out and “seeking” it to gain the approval and accolades of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/455 "2023-09-24T16:43:05Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Personally I reveal that I have spied…though I never ever say who I used to _do_ the spying. Doubt. If you did, and you were proud of it, by your logic, and dogged determination to gain the affirmation of the community, you would have bragged about it spilling all the beans. Unless, of course, you don’t actually _believe_ what it is you say. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/456 "2023-09-24T18:34:35Z")
It appears that _all_ your side has left is silly ad hominems and long ago ceased to be able to deal with the actual topic. I thus declare myself the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/457 "2023-09-24T18:36:59Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/8/c/38c72135cce717a043f0b69fbd90e1c157b02c16.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/458 "2023-09-24T18:59:02Z")
And no one will applaud you for it. 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2023, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/459 "2023-09-24T19:49:48Z")
@Iceacid_Frostpacker would declare you winner also but you should charge him 1 bil ISK for such a privilege. 😉 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/460 "2023-09-25T00:17:53Z")
Get off my back you tank-top! ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 6:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/461 "2023-09-25T06:04:41Z")
You’re right, Aiko should charge you 5 bil ISK instead. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369/462 "2023-09-25T06:14:56Z")
That sounds fair. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-pay-to-win-myth/419369.md?page=24)