# The Permanent Green Safety Brigade **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974 "2022-04-25T20:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/262 "2022-04-29T01:19:19Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/c/ace0305a04582adb24340819d7982540684b1715.gif) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/263 "2022-04-29T01:19:43Z")
cat fight šŸ˜ƒ ![cat-fight](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/f/1/0f1873ffac76b0dd0345165bbfac0eff26d57f39.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/264 "2022-04-29T01:23:39Z")
Well, different people are going to have different philosophies and advice when it comes to this, but hereā€™s my take on the matter. Losing everything on death was kind of scary for me at first, however, I dealt with it by using risk management. In fact, thatā€™s what, ā€œdonā€™t fly what you canā€™t afford to lose,ā€ is -itā€™s risk management. And so, I started by flying things like meta-fit, T1 ewar frigates. Not only were they cheap enough that I didnā€™t mind losing them, but I also ended up finding them to be very fun and rewarding (such as when I could play the hero by breaking the tackle that had my corpmates pinned down). Of course, as my isk efficiency increased, the cost of the ships I would fling into dangerous situations also increased. But I always liked to keep things cheap when compared to what others are willing to spend. Of course, more expensive ships can offer an advantages, but so can other things, such as player skill and character skill. And since character skills canā€™t be lost, I ended up investing proportionally more of my isk into that -which not only allowed me to get my skills to a high level, but also allowed me to fly an extremely large range of ships. This, in turn, gave me versatility and adaptability, and helped to keep the game fresh and fun. Moreover, there is no rule in Eve saying you have to fight fair. So, let others bling out their ships. As far as Iā€™m concerned, that just means more potential profit for me. Anyway, Iā€™ve got to run, but I want to leave you with John Dreeā€™s _The Art of Poor_, which was highly influential on me. Oh, and something else to consider is going to play with a nullbloc, as they have some rather generous Ship Replacement Programs. (Part 1 of a 3 part series) [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/d/9d5aa12731a966c97a8d7b0d0b41d599bfe29806.jpeg "The Art of Poor - Sustainable PVP in EvE Online") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kh6L4bmy24) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/265 "2022-04-29T01:25:55Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > John Dreeā€™s _The Art of Poor_, first fight is in a phantasm , this must be good edit: lool i got such a good fight , 4 battle herons , i burned my guns in the last one ā˜¹ 65 million for a nice night totally worth it - 31 left for 1000 solo kills ![Captura de Tela 2022-04-28 aĢ€s 23.44.29](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/0/9/40924c35fdc0656cf0e4146de939abd1dd2c4c39.jpeg) btw thats the good part of FW , fights come to you meanwhile you are getting some LP isk ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/266 "2022-04-29T04:46:53Z")
> [@Mina\_Zealot](#): > > realize that theyā€™re making one step forward and two steps back as far as in-game progress and if the progress is measured by the number of ships lost > > Itā€™s only fun for the one who blows you up. The fun in EVE is very one-sided I couldnā€™t disagree more. Of course, I like winning, but it is not a necessary condition for having fun for me. Moreover, killmails and wallet size are only two ways in which you can measure progress, and many people donā€™t give a crap about one or both of them. - Some of the best players in the game lose a lot because they constantly push themselves outside of their comfort zones, and intentionally take on challenging fights. As [Kelon Darklight](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/catiz-tash-murkon-to-be-crowned-empress-of-amarr-as-champion-kelon-darklight-and-team-triumph-in-final-trials/) once said, ā€œyou will lock yourself into your current level of competency if all you do is punch down.ā€ - I have plenty of fond memories flying with knuckleheads and feeding ships. I didnā€™t care about winning or losing, or even growing as a player during these fleets, because I did it to hang out with friends -we enjoyed busting each others balls over our stupid mistakes, making each other laugh with our smack talk, and getting into trouble. - Many people find close losses to be more enjoyable than one sided victories. For some reason, however, many cultures have begun to paint winning as the most important thing when it comes to playing games or sports (which is especially prevalent at the professional level). And so they cheat, give out bounties for injuring opposing team members, act like sore losers, and prioritize winning over having fun (which is something that I have frequently been guilty of myself). ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/9/3/6939e138ae020c2ac7d1201ea462378ad4fcc834.jpeg) One of my favorite gaming experiences was playing dominoes with a roommate over a course of 3 or 4 years. He was a formidable opponent that handed me plenty of losses over that time, but I enjoyed his company, and I enjoyed our close games. Of course, I liked winning, but I didnā€™t mind losing, and the fact that I was playing against a worthy opponent made my victories all the more satisfying. In fact, did you know that we played so much dominoes that we had a meta? We learned how each other (and all our friends) played, and would adapt our own play in order to use that to our advantage. Naturally, this led to an ever evolving meta as we adapted to each other, and weā€™d sometimes enter into periods where one of us would start dominating the other. And, not once, not ever ever ever ever, during any of the periods where I was losing did I consider not playing dominoes with him any more. I kept enjoying his company, and I enjoyed the challenge of figuring out what he was doing, and how I could counter it. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/0/4/20448096e58b1d2cccfde65ae3f192d59c2928a2.jpeg) And no, I donā€™t know why I sometimes prioritize winning over fun. Perhaps itā€™s my pride. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/267 "2022-04-29T05:09:45Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And no, I donā€™t know why I sometimes prioritize winning over fun. Sociopath, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_zealot/32/305585_2.png) [@Mina\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 6:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/268 "2022-04-29T06:16:33Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I couldnā€™t disagree more. How unfortunate. But this quoteā€¦ > [@Mina\_Zealot](#): > > realize that theyā€™re making one step forward and two steps back as far as in-game progress and if the progress is measured by the number of ships lost ā€¦was one post entirely disconnected from this quoteā€¦ > [@Mina\_Zealot](#): > > Itā€™s only fun for the one who blows you up. The fun in EVE is very one-sided ā€¦ which was a total other post to Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier and had nothing to do with each other. Did you put those two quotes together to make the point in your post? I wonder why you had to do that. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Of course, I like winning, but it is not a necessary condition for having fun Of course not. Winning and Having Fun are two different things. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Moreover, killmails and wallet size are only two ways in which you can measure progress, and many people donā€™t give a crap about one or both of them. I donā€™t give a crap about both. I measure my progress with how much of the game Iā€™m able to experience and to what depth. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Some of the best players in the game lose a lot because they constantly push themselves outside of their comfort zones, and intentionally take on challenging fights Good for them. Iā€™m sure those players can afford to do that. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I have plenty of fond memories flying with knuckleheads and feeding ships. I didnā€™t care about winning or losing, or even growing as a player during these fleets, because I did it to hang out with friends -we enjoyed busting each others balls over our stupid mistakes, making each other laugh with our smack talk, and getting into trouble Yep. I had pretty much the same experience and did post about how Iā€™m going to miss the EVE community. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Many people find close losses to be more enjoyable than one sided victories How about close wins? I like those over one-sided victories. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > For some reason, however, many cultures have begun to paint winning as the most important thing when it comes to playing games or sports Of course. Winning feels better than losing so itā€™s only natural that people gravitate around the idea more than the idea of losing. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And so they cheat, give out bounties for injuring opposing team members, act like sore losers, and prioritize winning over having fun Reminds me of the tennis player John McEnroe. šŸ¤£ > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > One of my favorite gaming experiences was playing dominoes with a roommate over a course of 3 or 4 years. He was a formidable opponent that handed me plenty of losses over that time, but I enjoyed his company, and I enjoyed our close games. Of course, I liked winning, but I didnā€™t mind losing, and the fact that I was playing against a worthy opponent made my victories all the more satisfying I had the same experience with a friend of mine when he taught me to play Chess. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And, not once, not ever ever ever ever, during any of the periods where I was losing did I consider not playing dominoes with him any more It was the same when I played Chess with the friend who taught me. We all started somewhere, none of us became good at anything before experiencing how bad we were at it first. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > And no, I donā€™t know why I sometimes prioritize winning over fun. Perhaps itā€™s my pride Itā€™s all of our pride that make us want to win. As you know at the end of the day pride plays a huge role in our lives, both negatively and positively ---
**Author:** ![Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifi_brin_d_acier/32/316767_2.png) [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifi_Brin_D_acier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/269 "2022-04-29T07:19:32Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Anyway, Iā€™ve got to run, but I want to leave you with John Dreeā€™s _The Art of Poor_, which was highly influential on me. Oh, and something else to consider is going to play with a nullbloc, as they have some rather generous Ship Replacement Programs Thanks for the video. And Iā€™m looking into getting in with a Wormhole corporation. Had a little chat with one of their reps last week and Iā€™m holding off until my overall skills improve. ---
**Author:** ![Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifi_brin_d_acier/32/316767_2.png) [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifi_Brin_D_acier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/270 "2022-04-29T07:32:04Z")
> [@Mina\_Zealot](#): > > We all started somewhere, none of us became good at anything before experiencing how bad we were at it first. So true. And some people should remember that truth instead of trying to inflate their ego at the expense of others. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/271 "2022-04-29T08:23:49Z")
> [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](#): > > Where did you go, @Gix_Firebrand ? Just when you started being funny you disappear. Not fair I mean, you donā€™t even know what time zones are now? šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifi_brin_d_acier/32/316767_2.png) [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifi_Brin_D_acier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 8:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/272 "2022-04-29T08:33:18Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > I mean, you donā€™t even know what time zones are now? No but Iā€™m sure you are going to tell me šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_zealot/32/305585_2.png) [@Mina\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/273 "2022-04-29T11:00:06Z")
> [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](#): > > Iā€™m sure you are going to tell me I can hardly wait šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifi_brin_d_acier/32/316767_2.png) [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifi_Brin_D_acier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/274 "2022-04-29T11:01:28Z")
> [@Mina\_Zealot](#): > > I can hardly wait Me too. I hope he tells me or I donā€™t know what Iā€™m gonna do šŸ„ŗ ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/275 "2022-04-29T14:53:34Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Unlike all of you speculators, Iā€™ve actually been killing people in this game as a full-time activity for nearly 20 years, so believe me when I tell you that the lionā€™s share of whining is done by the **older** players. Younger gamers are playing games like DayZ and Rust and PUBG, and they _get_ it. Stop trying to offload your issues on ā€œthem kidsā€ when itā€™s the bottom-eighties millennials and their old Gen-X and young boomer parents whoā€™ve turned the personal entitlement SJW agenda into a religion. > > And no, this isnā€™t conjecture. Iā€™ve talked to hundreds of players Iā€™ve killed, and sussed out their their ages and other personal information to construct a reliable quantitative understanding of who the whiners are. And I got real good at it too. You can easily get most of these people to start going off **for hours** about how theyā€™re ā€œtoo old for this ā– ā– ā– ā– ā€ and how theyā€™re too busy being successful real-life family men by saying less than a dozen words to them. If you donā€™t believe it, go sit in the ganking channel for a week. This is quite laughable nonsense ageist stereotyping. The sort of thing you get in absurd tabloid stories about kids showing parents how to use a VCR recorder, or old grannies whoā€™ve never used a computer in their life. The _reality_ is that many older people have been playing computer games for 40 years or moreā€¦in many cases longer than younger people have even been alive. The older generation are the ones who _invented_ computer games in the first placeā€¦and you go on as if they donā€™t know how to switch on a computer. Thereā€™s an entire generation whoā€™ve played through very early games like Brick Outā€¦( late 70s )ā€¦ Empire ( on the Dragon 32ā€¦1982 ), Donky Kong, etcā€¦games like Wolfenstein and Doom and Quakeā€¦Half lifeā€¦early team games like Team Fortressā€¦Counterstrikeā€¦all the way up to Eve and all the latest MMOs and RPG and FPS games. And youā€™re gonna teach these people how to suck eggs ? ---
**Author:** ![Etch\_Masuka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/etch_masuka/32/468743_2.png) [@Etch\_Masuka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Etch_Masuka)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/276 "2022-04-29T14:57:00Z")
This seems to be a response to a completely different post. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/277 "2022-04-29T15:11:04Z")
Everything DC writes is fan fiction. He hasnā€™t logged into the game in years. Just ignore and move on to something more productive. Mr Epeen šŸ•¶ ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_zealot/32/305585_2.png) [@Mina\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/278 "2022-04-29T15:15:56Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This is quite laughable nonsense ageist stereotyping Destiny\_Corrupted graduated in Nonsense. He convinces himself of something and nothing else matters after that but his opinion. Itā€™s like tunnel vision. > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > He hasnā€™t logged into the game in years. Yet he bashes on me for wanting to enjoy the game as an Alpha before all my assets are exhausted and I no longer log in. Talk about Hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Zealot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_zealot/32/305585_2.png) [@Mina\_Zealot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/279 "2022-04-29T15:22:06Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > This is quite laughable nonsense ageist stereotyping. The sort of thing you get in absurd tabloid stories about kids showing parents how to use a VCR recorder, or old grannies whoā€™ve never used a computer in their life Just stereotypes of people, not real people. Itā€™s no wonder that DC and his alt Gix are so off on everybody. He doesnā€™t know how real people actually are, all he knows are stereotypes of people. > [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Everything DC writes is fan fictionā€¦ ā€¦and outright lies like the one Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier caught him perpetrate on me in this very thread. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/280 "2022-04-29T15:23:21Z")
I still have the Dragon 32 computerā€¦a collectorā€™s item. Hard to believe entire computer games were once played on something with less memory than required to store the icon for a Scourge missile. ---
**Author:** ![Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fifi_brin_d_acier/32/316767_2.png) [@Fifi\_Brin\_D\_acier](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fifi_Brin_D_acier)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/281 "2022-04-29T15:23:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Just ignore and move on to something more productive Wise words. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=15)