# The Permanent Green Safety Brigade **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974 "2022-04-25T20:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/21 "2022-04-26T19:08:49Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m just curious how that looks like. [Here’s the site.](https://zkillboard.com/) Browse to your heart’s content. I’m sure you’ll find the answer to your question. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/22 "2022-04-26T19:13:43Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I’m just curious how that looks like. A ‘Solo’ kill…where the killer did just 0.8% of the damage and Concord and Guristas did all the rest. I had found a 0.4% case yesterday ( I think also a Gnosis ). To my mind…‘solo’ should be where a person gets 100% of the kill. It’s a bit of an insult to those who DO get 100% to call this sort of thing ‘solo’… > **[Gnosis | SuchkaChetkaya | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/100444667/)** > > SuchkaChetkaya (Center for Advanced Studies) lost their Gnosis in Nourvukaiken (Lonetrek). Final Blow by Ibonen Inkura (dancing with myse-helf) flying in a Ferox. Total Value: 69,876,559.84 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/23 "2022-04-26T19:21:06Z")
Thanks. I thought you were talking about player-only kills. If the only other parties involved are NPCs, it makes sense though. The kill board only counts kills as solo if only one player is involved, regardless of all other factors. The reason for this is fairly simple: NPCs are predictable factors. If NPCs counted against solo kills, then you’d have situations in which one player kills another player on an empty field, and doesn’t get the solo kill just because a rat attacked them in the past 15 minutes, which would be an unfair classification. The only NPC kills that shouldn’t be counted as “solo” kills should be ones where CONCORD (not fac-po) is involved. Those should probably have their own classification, like “AG” or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/24 "2022-04-26T19:30:58Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > To my mind…‘solo’ should be where a person gets 100% of the kill. It’s a bit of an insult to those who DO get 100% to call this sort of thing ‘solo’… If I’m solo hunting ratters in space, I can be certain not to deal 100% of the damage on any ship I kill solo, as they’re all under NPC fire while out in space. Does that mean those kills aren’t solo kills? I think you need to work on your definition of solo kills a bit more. I like @Destiny_Corrupted 's idea to give CONCORD a special flag, but apart from that any NPC damage should be disregarded for the definition of solo kills. ---
**Author:** ![Hans\_Devin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hans_devin/32/373511_2.png) [@Hans\_Devin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hans_Devin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/25 "2022-04-26T19:32:04Z")
You forgot : The Orca is a Command Ship Calm down miner It depends Oh yes…very good OP ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/26 "2022-04-26T19:35:20Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > If NPCs counted against solo kills, then you’d have situations in which one player kills another player on an empty field, and doesn’t get the solo kill just because a rat attacked them in the past 15 minutes, which would be an unfair classification. Yes but I’m not talking about a situation where some PvP player gets 99% of a kill and some npc intervenes and gets 1% and robs the ‘Solo’ kill. Maybe over a certain % it _should_ be regarded as ‘Solo’. But the situation I refer to is the complete reverse of that…where npcs have done most of the work and someone gets a shot in at the last moment and scores 0.4% of the damage. I’ll bet there are even lower examples. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/27 "2022-04-26T19:38:02Z")
You forget repairs and NPC damage. If a player has been sustaining 2k EHP NPC dps on their 30k EHP ship for the past 10 minutes and a player comes by to kill them from **full health** , that player only deals about 2% of all the damage sustained over those 10 minutes. (Numbers just as an example) The player expected to survive the NPC damage as their fit can handle it. The only thing that broke their tank and the thing that killed them is the solo player that came along. It doesn’t matter how much damage the solo player dealt or how much it is compared to all the NPC damage that was taken, all that matters is that the extra player damage dealt was just enough to break the other ship. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/28 "2022-04-26T19:40:53Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I think you need to work on your definition of solo kills a bit more. Just how _low_ does the percent have to be before ‘Solo’ becomes absurd ? 0.000001 % ? Your Void S bounces off an asteroid and kills the ship’s cat, which falls on the ship console and splinters off a tiny splinter of wood that sticks in the other pilot’s thumb. Ouch ! Yay…Solo Kill ! ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/29 "2022-04-26T19:42:54Z")
You’re trying to classify a kill as solo kill based on fraction of the damage dealt. I do not think a number alone is enough to split solo kills from ‘leeches’ (= player dealing a little damage and letting NPCs do the killing) as I have given in the previous example that NPC damage and repairs can result in _very low_ player damage percentages for full kills. Regardless of where you put the threshold you’re going to get a lot of false positives or false negatives. As a result, I don’t really see the added value of such a threshold to determine solo kills. Maybe if you added other factors as well? Current situation is simple: one player involved = solo kill. And if you wish to get the details, look at the data of that kill to see how it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/30 "2022-04-26T19:45:38Z")
The game’s kill tracking system isn’t “intelligent.” The system doesn’t know who did how much damage over how much time; it just keeps track of the total figures and the last time one party was aggroed against another. It doesn’t know whether you’ve killed a target that just spent the last 10 minutes fighting mission rats and tanking 1,400 DPS before you showed up, or that you’ve killed a target that absolutely wouldn’t have died to you alone if the NPCs on the field didn’t add the necessary DPS. Since such metrics aren’t reported (because they likely don’t exist), it’s impossible for zKill to make any distinctions, and as such, a universal rule has to be applied. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/31 "2022-04-26T19:47:54Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > If I’m solo hunting ratters in space An honorable profession. Even sitting cloaked until he’s in armor and then tapping him for the “solo kill”. Nothing wrong with gaming the mechanic for KB bragging rights. Everybody does it. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/32 "2022-04-26T19:48:48Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It doesn’t matter how much damage the solo player dealt or how much it is compared to all the NPC damage that was taken, all that matters is that the extra player damage dealt was just enough to break the other ship. But in the case I gave it is quite clear that the remaining 0.8% would have been dealt by the NPCs anyway. A player has simply got one shot off, and that is recorded as _part_ of the damage…but its pretty obvious the ship would otherwise have been destroyed anyway and would be listed on zkills as an ‘NPC’ kill. Instead, it is listed as a ‘Solo’ kill for the player. That just seems anachronous. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/33 "2022-04-26T19:50:04Z")
Which is literally only applicable to CONCORD kills. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/34 "2022-04-26T20:13:03Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Instead, it is listed as a ‘Solo’ kill for the player. That just seems anachronous. That’s purely a decision of Squizz in developing zkill. Easy enough to ignore if you dont agree with it. He’s just another player and the ‘solo’ tag isn’t something generated by CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/35 "2022-04-26T20:42:04Z")
I don’t understand why anyone cares. We all know that people whore on killmails, and we all know that there are various edge cases that result in killmails that paint an inaccurate picture of what happened. And, if that wasn’t already enough of a reason not to care, we’re ultimately talking about bragging rights… in a video game… where people intentionally try to avoid fair fights. I don’t know man. I just don’t understand why people care so much. Don’t get me wrong, zkill is a useful tool for things like intel (if you keep in mind that it isn’t perfect intel) and mercenary contracts. But, beyond that, I just don’t give a crap. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/36 "2022-04-26T20:51:25Z")
Carriers and dreads in hishsec to counter Keepstars when??? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/37 "2022-04-26T20:59:02Z")
It would be better to ban keepstars from highsec, than to allow caps in. I mean, the guys that can anchor keepstars can field caps to defend them. Meanwhile smaller groups that can’t field caps will be severely disadvantaged, and the incursion community will begin to print isk like they’re trying to break the game’s economy. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/38 "2022-04-26T21:26:22Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > But in the case I gave it is quite clear that the remaining 0.8% would have been dealt by the NPCs anyway. A player has simply got one shot off, and that is recorded as _part_ of the damage…but its pretty obvious the ship would otherwise have been destroyed anyway and would be listed on zkills as an ‘NPC’ kill. Instead, it is listed as a ‘Solo’ kill for the player. That just seems anachronous. Depending on what you’re doing, the rats also shoot you too, so it isn’t really an issue. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 11:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/39 "2022-04-26T23:12:47Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > Everybody does it. Funny, I became fuzzy for not doing that. Am I the only one? > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > I don’t know man. I just don’t understand why people care so much. Don’t get me wrong, zkill is a useful tool for things like intel (if you keep in mind that it isn’t perfect intel) and mercenary contracts. But, beyond that, I just don’t give a crap. ^ What he said. 🫤 ---
**Author:** ![Katya\_Itzimaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/katya_itzimaru/32/512123_2.png) [@Katya\_Itzimaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Katya_Itzimaru)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/40 "2022-04-27T06:31:16Z")
If a ship receives 500dps from rats for 48mins, and then a player comes in and adds an extra 500dps for a minute, then they’ll deal exactly 2% of the damage. However they caught and tackled the target, and brought the correct amount of extra dps to break it’s reps. They’re absolutely 100% responsible for the kill. Making hard assertions about things you don’t understand isn’t a good look. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=3)