# The Permanent Green Safety Brigade **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974 "2022-04-25T20:58:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rohan\_Enorch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rohan_enorch/32/310580_2.png) [@Rohan\_Enorch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rohan_Enorch)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/41 "2022-04-27T10:07:45Z")
Exactly šŸ˜€ ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/42 "2022-04-27T10:30:03Z")
So, hereā€™s a picture of Snarf holding candy. ![ddmga92-f955fa03-9847-4185-8151-27b3de31d8ac](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/c/f/fcfea5bfb0f4772d04c6618458cce8a709c25bd1.jpeg) Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/43 "2022-04-27T14:29:32Z")
Complaining about carebears, With walls of text and such, Forums are apparently still more fun than EvE, Methinks the pvp crowd doth protest too much. Who are you addressing this nonsense to? Is this for the ā€œbearsā€, or for other ends? Are you looking to say something worth reading? Or farming for headpats from your friends? If people arent having fun, theyll just leave. Why would you pay money to get burned? Then weā€™ll just get another ā€œplayer retentionā€ thread. And as always, not a single lesson will be learned. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/44 "2022-04-27T15:21:06Z")
On the subject of being green ( in more ways than one )ā€¦Iā€™ve yet to actually set the safety icon to anything else. So I have a question I have asked before but never really gotten an answer toā€¦ Can others _see_ if I have my safety set to yellow or red ? Or is it only visible if I actually lock on them. I know one can see other peopleā€™s ā€˜securityā€™ statusā€¦-5, -10, etcā€¦but is safety setting visible in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/45 "2022-04-27T15:28:37Z")
Nope. No one can know, except in cases where you visibly perform acts that confer the appropriate status flags to you (e.g. stealing from someoneā€™s can). ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/46 "2022-04-27T15:31:45Z")
> [@Katya\_Itzimaru](#): > > If a ship receives 500dps from rats for 48mins, and then a player comes in and adds an extra 500dps for a minute, then theyā€™ll deal exactly 2% of the damage. > > However they caught and tackled the target, and brought the correct amount of extra dps to break itā€™s reps. Theyā€™re absolutely 100% responsible for the kill. > > Making hard assertions about things you donā€™t understand isnā€™t a good look. That is just pure nonsense, bordering on jabberwocky. You otherwise end up with the absurd situation where one person could **genuinely** demolish the ship and be responsible for 100% of the damage, and rightly claim a ā€˜soloā€™ kill in its true meaningā€¦whilst some other person could merely cause a splinter of woodwork from the console to go into the pilotā€™s thumbā€¦cause 0.000000000001 % of the damageā€¦and wander off claiming a ā€˜soloā€™ kill and 100% responsibility. To argue that the two are comparable is bordering on Alice In Wonderland levels of absurdity. But then this is Eveā€¦so par for the course I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/47 "2022-04-27T16:01:45Z")
Youā€™re still on about that? There is no shame in admitting you had not thought about continuous NPC damage when you made your earlier claims about ā€˜solo kills require you to deal all damage soloā€™. Doubling down on it is a bit silly, however. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/48 "2022-04-27T16:39:53Z")
Iā€™m not ā€˜doubling downā€™ on anything. Itā€™s more that the situation described, where someone is being attacked by NPCs for 48 mins and another player comes along and ā€˜tips the balanceā€™, is absurdly unlikely and is very clearly not what is happening in most ā€˜soloā€™ kill cases. The chances of it all being SO finely balanced that a player is sitting there repping for ages at 98% damage is really stretching things. Not least because if the NPCs got a person to 98% damage then there really isnā€™t any reason they would not go all the way to 100%. If the NPCs do 98% damage in 48 minsā€¦they should do 100% damage in 50 minsā€¦even with extra power to shields etc when below 25%. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/49 "2022-04-27T16:41:37Z")
You may be interested in the following video, then. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/a/f/fafd35ec08dca12102d1b3e9352bd705ea5c195f.jpeg "Sigil visits Tama") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkSEk8q2jXM) Not exactly a solo kill, but the EHP on the killmail and how the Sigil gets taken down with the slow addition of DPS shows that yes, something that is stable at some DPS, gets ā€œtipped overā€ with the addition of 1 source of DPS. Not unheard of in PVE fits. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/50 "2022-04-27T16:51:06Z")
Hey, have you ever seen the video were Suitonia (now CCP Kestrel) got people to chase him into bubbles with diamond rats on them? So, do you think he shouldnā€™t get credit for those kills if he didnā€™t do enough damage? I personally think he should, as he was instrumental in causing their deaths, no matter how much damage he did to them. Speaking of which, what about anti-gankers that do nothing besides get a point on a ganker, and let facpo kill them? Or FCā€™s and ewar ships that apply little to no damage to no damage to kills, but still play an instrumental role in getting kills and winning battles? What about 250 man fleets where no one does more than 1% damage because thereā€™s just that many people on the kill? Honestly, I could go on. I think the whole idea of looking at the percent of damage done in order to determine if someone should be credited with a kill is flawed. Plus, as I said before, who cares? Why do you care so much about this? And, on a side note, please donā€™t flag her for off-topic posting. I hate all the flagging that has been going on as of late, people seem engaged in the debate, and this isnā€™t an official feedback thread or something. So, if people want to talk about it here, let them talk about it. And if she does get flagged and the ISDā€™s see this, know that Iā€™m OP, and Iā€™m okay with it. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/4/7/d47d5ed8717f5f48f20a4a391defe045326d63fb.jpeg "Baited on a free") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwFIEHMaHSI) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/51 "2022-04-27T16:54:32Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > If the NPCs do 98% damage in 48 minsā€¦they should do 100% damage in 50 minsā€¦even with extra power to shields etc when below 25%. Uhā€¦ You accidentally overlooking active tanks, or what? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/52 "2022-04-27T16:55:55Z")
Thatā€™s not true. Lots of players intentionally roll with the minimum amount of tank, as that means more fitting resources for things that improve isk efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/53 "2022-04-27T16:58:40Z")
That simply isnā€™t the same situation. I had something similar when I took on a bait Nereusā€¦it all went on for almost a minute due to him having half a dozen shield purgers. I simply could not bring up enough dps to match that recharge rateā€¦and ultimately lost. Not really the same thing as someone firing a single shot somewhere in the middle of NPCs attacking a ship and claiming that without that shot the ship would have survived. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/54 "2022-04-27T17:03:36Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You accidentally overlooking active tanks, or what? Noā€¦simply asking why, if the NPCs have already done 99% damage they would not be able to do the last 1%. That might happen once in a very blue moon, but to suggest it is common enough to account for a large portion of the ā€˜soloā€™ kills where someone intervenes is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/55 "2022-04-27T17:05:01Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > single shot > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > last 1% These are not equivalent, which may be the source of confusion. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/56 "2022-04-27T17:06:53Z")
What confusion ? Why couldnā€™t the last 1% be a single shot ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/57 "2022-04-27T17:13:11Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Honestly, I could go on. I think the whole idea of looking at the percent of damage done in order to determine if someone should be credited with a kill is flawed. Credited, yes. All I am saying is that it is anachronous to call something a ā€˜soloā€™ kill where a person does not do 100% of the damageā€¦as that is the very meaning of ā€˜soloā€™ā€¦and even more so if they only do 0.8% of it. It detracts from genuine solo kills where a person _does_ do 100% of the damage. Thatā€™s all Iā€™m saying. Itā€™s not a question of mechanics or dynamicsā€¦its a question of terminology. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/58 "2022-04-27T17:13:24Z")
The percent is ā€œof all total damage done to the ship since tracking it beganā€. The percent is not ā€œpercent of ship hull or armor or shieldsā€. If I have a ship with 100 HP but active repair 10k NPC damage and get into a brawl at full health just as i destroy the NPC where someone shoots me 10 times for 10 damage and I dont repair (say, out of cap), it is: - 99.9% NPC damage (10k) - 0.1% Player damage (100) But it wasnā€™t one shot. And realistically a solo kill. Edit: In the video I shared above, you can see the Sigil took 250k damage. Each player contributed to that total, which is a percent of that total. It is not a percent of the shipā€™s EHP on paper. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/59 "2022-04-27T17:14:22Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Noā€¦simply asking why, if the NPCs have already done 99% damage they would not be able to do the last 1%. That might happen once in a very blue moon, but to suggest it is common enough to account for a large portion of the ā€˜soloā€™ kills where someone intervenes is absurd. Those are outlier situations. The grand majority of cases where NPCs are involved that arenā€™t CONCORD criminal kills are in situations where someone gets baited or attacked while doing PvE content that they can tank without any issues. Which is to say, thereā€™s almost a 0% chance they wouldā€™ve died to those NPCs. Also, youā€™re overlooking a very important aspect of such PvP scenarios, and that is that NPCs will often switch targets to the attacker while the fight is taking place. This is especially common for ā€œAIā€ NPCs like Sleeper and incursion rats, which will instantly prioritize any hostile ship on the field thatā€™s engaging in e-war, with scramblers/webbers handily falling into that category. Regardless, if this is something that upsets you, you should contact the maker of zKill and voice your concerns, as the ā€œsoloā€ marker is applied according to the logic on which they decided. CCP has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974/60 "2022-04-27T17:14:52Z")
Hereā€™s a simple practical example: [Ishtar | nalalen Uit | Killmail | zKillboard](https://zkillboard.com/kill/93189999/) Not 2%, but 9.4%, but same story: the guy had been ratting for a while and had taken a lot of NPC damage over that time which his armor repairer had all repaired. I came by, killed him solo and did ā€˜onlyā€™ 9.4% of the total damage in order to kill him. The percentage of total damage that I did in that case was irrelevant, what mattered was that I was there and killed him. As I was the only player around, it was flagged as solo kill by zkillboard. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-permanent-green-safety-brigade/359974.md?page=4)