# The problem with Eve Online is a matter of perception **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810 "2019-09-14T14:22:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/82 "2019-09-22T18:24:57Z")
Well, I think removing CONCORD would help a lot. If new players were unable to remain hidden in high sec, they would not evolve into carebears who have been AFK mining for years, and people would generally find the game more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/83 "2019-09-22T18:59:53Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Wow, for someone who supposedly has a PhD, you’re really ignorant, especially if you think that isolated case represents normal work ethics for 911 Emergency Dispatchers. You have no idea what a PhD is or what it means to hold one, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/84 "2019-09-22T19:02:33Z")
I was thinking about this the other day… why does every inch of HiSec need to be covered by CONCORD? What about areas or objects with nice rewards but cause suspect flagging? Or just areas where CONCORD simply won’t show up to help you? EDIT: I think this is an interesting idea to explore. What if CONCORD only protected gates, belts, and some explo/missions? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/85 "2019-09-22T19:39:05Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > What about areas or objects with nice rewards but cause suspect flagging? Or just areas where CONCORD simply won’t show up to help you? We already have those. They’re called “low sec, null, and WH space”. Next idea. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/86 "2019-09-22T19:41:03Z")
LowSec and NullSec aren’t areas of HiSec. Next badpost. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/87 "2019-09-22T19:41:14Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > We already have those. They’re called “low sec, null, and WH space”. The problem is that so long as high sec exists, carebears will use it to hide in. High sec must be burned to the ground, so the rest of the game can flourish. ---
**Author:** ![Eivar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eivar/32/178879_2.png) [@Eivar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eivar)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/88 "2019-09-22T20:12:09Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The problem is that so long as high sec exists, carebears will use it to hide in. High sec must be burned to the ground, so the rest of the game can flourish. The “rest of the game” is not contingent upon security status and never has been. “Safety” is not contingent upon security status and never has been. If you want to mess with the carebears, feel free to cause some chaos in high sec…or are you that afraid of guaranteed retaliation by CONCORD? Because I can assure you, many players in those systems are not. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/89 "2019-09-22T20:30:53Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The problem is that so long as high sec exists, carebears will use it to hide in. High sec must be burned to the ground, so the rest of the game can flourish. 🤣 speaks one of the biggest highsec carebears I know. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/90 "2019-09-22T21:07:13Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The problem is that so long as high sec exists, carebears will use it to hide in. True enough, I hear that all the CODE. pvp-wannabe’s and the other lameass can’t-really-pvp folks who need a ‘safe’ space to hunt in have been hiding there for years. ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/91 "2019-09-22T22:03:45Z")
Bitter much? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 11:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/92 "2019-09-22T23:03:44Z")
> [@Xuixien](#): > > > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > > Wow, for someone who supposedly has a PhD, you’re really ignorant, especially if you think that isolated case represents normal work ethics for 911 Emergency Dispatchers. > > You have no idea what a PhD is or what it means to hold one, do you? Do you? More importantly, anyone who posts crap like that on the forums without providing proof to back up their claim are just lying. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/93 "2019-09-22T23:40:32Z")
I’ve heard the suggestion of dividing high- and low-security space into high-, _medium-_, and low-security space so that it’s more of a gradient than the cliff it is currently, though limiting CONCORD like what you’re suggesting isn’t what I had in mind. I’m currently mulling the most effective ways to implement it, and what I have so far is that 1.0-0.8/7 would be highsec, 0.8/7-0.5/4 would be medsec, and 0.5/4-0.1 would be lowsec. 0.0 would only be NPC-owned nullsec, and anything with a lower rating than that would be player-owned “negsec”, since it has a negative security rating. ---
**Author:** ![Eivar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eivar/32/178879_2.png) [@Eivar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eivar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/94 "2019-09-23T00:12:51Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I’ve heard the suggestion of dividing high- and low-security space into high-, _medium-_, and low-security space so that it’s more of a gradient than the cliff it is currently, though limiting CONCORD like what you’re suggesting isn’t what I had in mind. I’ve called 0.5-0.4 “mid sec” for years. But no one listens 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Xuixien](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuixien/32/416896_2.png) [@Xuixien](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuixien)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/95 "2019-09-23T00:34:06Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Do you? Considering most of the people I deal with on a professional basis day to day have PhDs, and since I’ll probably be pursuing a PhD of my own, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/96 "2019-09-23T00:38:51Z")
> [@Valiran\_Teleros](#): > > I’m currently mulling the most effective ways to implement it, and what I have so far is that 1.0-0.8/7 would be highsec, 0.8/7-0.5/4 would be medsec, and 0.5/4-0.1 would be lowsec. I believe one of the key issues EVE has had, long term, is that high sec feels ‘sorta safe’ and any less experienced player asking “so should I head into low sec?” is generally told “well you will die a lot, generally shortly after you cross the border”. If they don’t ask, but fly in boldly… well they still die. So yes, some sort of progression between “sorta safe” and “you got gate camped by 6 guys in T3 cruisers” would probably be helpful. Although, possibly, a proper NPE and indoctrination into the notion that “you are immortal, ships are disposable, expect losses” might also help players bridge that chasm. (That last part deals with issues of ‘perception’ rather than game play, per se.) What would be the salient features of a “medium security” that helps to encourage the transition into higher risk/reward space? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_LoneStarGTx76](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_lonestargtx76/32/250333_2.png) [@Mr\_LoneStarGTx76](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_LoneStarGTx76)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/97 "2019-09-23T02:37:27Z")
In my view, capital ships should be weapons of war, only used in pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Valiran\_Teleros](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valiran_teleros/32/504787_2.png) [@Valiran\_Teleros](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valiran_Teleros)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/98 "2019-09-23T03:42:40Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > What would be the salient features of a “medium security” that helps to encourage the transition into higher risk/reward space? The random chance that CONCORD might not show up if you get ganked, though how that would work out is something I’d like hefty debate on. I don’t think I’m qualified to make that kind of judgment. ---
**Author:** ![Elwha\_Lynx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elwha_lynx/32/246048_2.png) [@Elwha\_Lynx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elwha_Lynx)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/99 "2019-09-23T06:51:36Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The problem is that so long as high sec exists, carebears will use it to hide in. High sec must be burned to the ground, so the rest of the game can flourish. Huh? Null has flourished…in fact so much it’s represented a threat to the entire economy that forced CCPs hand. Low Sec though, aside from faction warfare space which is more non-factioin warfare folks doing pvp against faction warfare people, seems relatively underpopulated with not a lot of economic impact-- it seems it could use a major rework. ---
**Author:** ![Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravid_bheskagor/32/472687_2.png) [@Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravid_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/100 "2019-09-23T08:28:35Z")
EVE and CCP associated promoting only. ---
**Author:** ![Complex\_Math](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/complex_math/32/378387_2.png) [@Complex\_Math](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Complex_Math)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810/101 "2019-09-23T14:53:12Z")
I gave this some thought as well. My thought for “Medium sec” is that Concord shows up, and helps you - but they don’t do infinite damage, and they aren’t guaranteed to destroy the enemy ship. Basically, they are there to “help” you defend yourself- but not do the entire job for you. As an alternative, if adding “Medium security” is too much change. Perhaps we can make a more moderate change - for example, increasing the power/mechanics of gate guns in low sec. Perhaps they fire ECM, which offers a “chance” that the defender can get away. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-problem-with-eve-online-is-a-matter-of-perception/189810.md?page=6)