# The Raata identity is a spiritual Identity, not a Caldari Identity **URL:** \ **Category:** EVE Lore Discussion\ **Created:** [April 15, 2021, 1:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698 "2021-04-15T01:15:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/61 "2021-04-22T14:54:07Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Systems of governance are no more a summation of a people’s culture Right and given how the system of the Raata Empire isn’t exactly the same as the State tells me that their culture might’ve changed up over the years. And let’s keep in mind that Wayism apparently existed before the Raata Empire, this was a relgiion informed by cultures that existed before the Raata Empire even existed. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > It is indicated that the culture, customs and values of the Raata era (vague as the terminology is, logic dictates Raata at their cultural height) greatly inform Caldari culture, customs and values, that the Caldari largely live in a different place and very different circumstances does not erase the notable cultural continuity. Again - I Never denied and can point to examples where I agree the State can carry on the DNA of the Raata culture. But That doesn’t make them the same thing… They’re a new animal entirely now, They don’t govern the sameway, and if the Napanii primier thing implies anything (Which was adopted into canon I believe) they don’t speak the same language anymore. They’re just not the same thing anymore… And that’s sorta expected out of any civilization really. One that lived as long as it has. The Caldari - With all the little similarities taken over, have become something different. ---
**Author:** ![Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhi_fen-chun/32/249257_2.png) [@Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhi_Fen-Chun)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/62 "2021-04-22T15:51:41Z")
If you will recall, the two groups in conflict were both descended from the same people, and had merely grown distant over a few generations apart. That is why they’re all Raata, they’re literally two branches of the same family. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/63 "2021-04-22T16:06:28Z")
So Is raata identity inherited though genetics? Whole argument up to this point implied it was inherited culturally ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/64 "2021-04-22T16:24:50Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > relgiion informed by cultures that existed before the Raata Empire Yes, the same precursor cultures which informed Raata culture; which doubtless informed Wayism over the subsequent millennia in which they coexisted. > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > a new animal entirely now Not entirely, and even were you correct; it does not follow that Raata is simply up for grabs. > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Is raata identity inherited though genetics? Whole argument up to this point implied it was inherited culturally In my personal opinion a culture is inherited, or you are adopted into it; adopting the affectations without the values is disrespectful and hypocritical. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/65 "2021-04-22T16:41:42Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > In my personal opinion a culture is inherited, or you are adopted into it; adopting the affectations without the values is disrespectful and hypocritical. And my personal opinion, culture is not genetically passed down - Unless we’re saying Race is real. Where certain people act a certain way due to some genetic differences. That this is nature Where Culture is nurture the way I see it, It’s something that is taught. Anyone can later learn the values and come to a understanding and learn to make these values apart of their lives. The people that grew up in the atmosphere of course would have a stronger understanding, but you can always teach someone that doesn’t quite understand them and open that culture up to them. Will they get it? Depends on the individual’s ability. Sure if you just adopt the identity it without any making any attempt to understand and try and adopt the values as your own. Might damn well be disrespectful. But I’m arguing that anyone is capable of learning and understanding it because it’s not something you need the right genetics to. You just need to be taught. And for the record - This is what I’ve been trying to say this whole time. IS that people can learn what the Raata were about though spirituality and learn to make that mindset theirs. I don’t think I’ve been saying “People can just take up the mantel, whatever.” No, I am implying people learn about some ■■■■ first and see if that message speaks to them enough to make them change their worldview. You learn to be Raata, and a way to do this is though Wayism In my opinion given the Impression I have that it played a way bigger roll culturally in that time period ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/66 "2021-04-22T19:31:28Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > You learn to be Raata, and a way to do this is though Wayism You keep saying this and offering no basis. Through Wayism you learn to be a Wayist, nothing else follows. No amount of study makes one a member of an ancient civilisation, the only contemporary Raata mentioned are the Raata Caldari of the Kaalakiota peaks; the only clear case in which someone would become Raata in any way shape or form is to be accepted by them. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/67 "2021-04-22T20:13:32Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > You keep saying this and offering no basis. Through Wayism you learn to be a Wayist, nothing else follows. Actually I have made a basis. The OP and later replies even contributing to this. I’ve argued that the Raata identity is a product of Wayist belief, broke down some expanded mindset that belief may bring. I present this case stringing together multiple canon lore sources. . Then - presented a case for Wayism being more universal and not trapped in the insular views of the Caldari. Not bound to one singular society or culture even. So in my intrepation, if Raata is a identity born out of spiritual belief, and you expand the scope of the spiritual it’s born from - You open up who can be considered Raata. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > No amount of study makes one a member of an ancient civilisation Yes because it collapsed. Im not talking about being of the Raata Empire. The identity can live beyond it. Learn what they’re about (Which I believe is heavily inspired off of spirituality) and apply that to your own life. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > the only contemporary Raata mentioned are the Raata Caldari of the Kaalakiota peaks; the only clear case in which someone would become Raata in any way shape or form is to be accepted by them. So by that logic not even the Caldari in the state can become Raata. ---
**Author:** ![Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhi_fen-chun/32/249257_2.png) [@Zhi\_Fen-Chun](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhi_Fen-Chun)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/68 "2021-04-23T00:53:31Z")
That it was initially genetic is what I took away from the Chronicle, but as the Raata empire was very successful and expansive with the people getting around it seems to me it eventually took on a cultural aspect as well. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/69 "2021-04-23T02:23:18Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > not even the Caldari in the state can become Raata Has anything given you the impression they want to become Raata? I think they are influenced by values the Caldari adopted during the Raata period; largely though people do not masquerade as members of a lapsed Empire just because they like the religion… who knows though? Maybe there’s a thriving cosplay scene. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/70 "2021-04-23T02:28:09Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Has anything given you the impression they want to become Raata? Your entire argument up to this point has given me the impression that you’re saying the Caldari are still the Raata just under a new name. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > ; largely though people do not masquerade as members of a lapsed Empire Again > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Yes because it collapsed. Im not talking about being of the Raata Empire. The identity can live beyond it. Learn what they’re about (Which I believe is heavily inspired off of spirituality) and apply that to your own life. This isn’t about claiming membership to a defunct empire, it’s about the identity that is Raata, not necessarily the Empire itself. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > who knows though? Maybe there’s a thriving cosplay scene. Sure, big enough world for all kinds of things ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/71 "2021-04-23T02:34:54Z")
If I were to learn every single thing there is to know about the Roman Empire, and adopted their core ethics, would that make me Roman? Because I don’t think so at all, it seems to me an utter absurdity. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/72 "2021-04-23T02:36:10Z")
Once again - I’m talking or referencing real world cultures or societies in my argument I’m not talking about the god damn romans ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/73 "2021-04-23T02:38:40Z")
That’s a cop out, because the specifics of the culture aren’t relevant. That’s a RL analogue of what you’re suggesting. That adopting ethics grants you someone else’s identity. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/74 "2021-04-23T02:40:07Z")
But the Roman society is a comepltey differnt animal and concept to what I’m talking about I’m specifically talking about the fictional Raata empire and basing my argument about the In-universe context. Sorry, but THIS is a cop-out. IF you wanted to yank a real-world culture out, At least you could had actually used like Japan or Finland, the real world inspirations for the Caldari/Raata culture. Then there’s some correlation there Romans are completely a different thing entirely Also - I’m not versed enough in the Roman identity to make an argument for them. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/75 "2021-04-23T02:43:21Z")
The specifics are not remotely relevant, but if you’d prefer, adopting Shinto wouldn’t make me any more Japanese than eating sushi. I could go to a Lutheran church and eat riisipiirakka every day, I would still not be a Finn. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/76 "2021-04-23T02:44:01Z")
And once again - I’m not knowledge enough in any of the identities to make a case for them, sorry. I can’'t argue for them as I don’t know all the details ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/77 "2021-04-23T02:47:40Z")
The details are inconsequential to the point. You want to call Wayism Raata for some reason, Raata already refers to a historical fictional nation and some hyper traditional tribes in the Kaalakiota peaks. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/78 "2021-04-23T02:48:40Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > You want to call Wayism Raata for some reason Because I believe Wayism is a contributing factor in the conception of the Raata identity, yes. I think they’re connected in my opinon > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Raata already refers to a historical fictional nation and some hyper traditional tribes in the Kaalakiota peaks. Who I believe were strongly into Wayism at the time based off the sources I brought up. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/79 "2021-04-23T02:55:57Z")
Based on a Lai Dai pamphlet? You want to reduce an empire with almost as much longevity as recorded human history solely to its religion? No need for a culture or identity, they were strongly into Wayism. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2021, 2:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698/80 "2021-04-23T02:58:04Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Based on a Lai Dai pamphlet? You want to reduce an empire with almost as much longevity as recorded human history solely to its religion? You do realize I brought up other lore sources too right? While you ain’t brought anything to the table. CCP doesn’t give us the full story and I’m taking the scraps given to make this conclusion. And I’m not suggesting there is other ■■■■ going on, again (I keep having to say again for you because you fly off and argue against a point I’m not making) is that Wayism was a contributing factor Contributing factor - That means there can be other factors in play here. Wayism I feel plays a bigger role then people think it did. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-raata-identity-is-a-spiritual-identity-not-a-caldari-identity/305698.md?page=5)