# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/303 "2018-01-22T18:18:40Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > > [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](#): > > > > this is our mauldy auld sand pit with hair broken glass and teeth just under the surface and we like it this way. > > That’s one opinion. Maybe you should take that opinion and go play WoW. > That’s all I’m saying. You’re making no sense. Ralph is clearly describing something very unlike WoW. ---
**Author:** ![Toran\_Mallow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/toran_mallow/32/55286_2.png) [@Toran\_Mallow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Toran_Mallow)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/304 "2018-01-22T20:27:32Z")
Source? ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/305 "2018-01-22T21:19:14Z")
look at the bottom right of the image. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/306 "2018-01-22T21:28:40Z")
Starting after - making sandwich do we really need passive Eve though. I mean being Evepassive offline shouldn’t you start thinking of real need to keep train anything for any reason. ---
**Author:** ![Viktor\_Calies](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/viktor_calies/32/50577_2.png) [@Viktor\_Calies](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Viktor_Calies)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/307 "2018-01-22T21:49:59Z")
Wow, new-ish forums. Weird. OP, I think you’ve hit on some interesting points about the population decline of the game. Eve Online has always had a reputation of reinforcing a certain type of game-play that may turn a lot of people off, but there are a combination of reasons: Another reason I believe is that they kind of painted themselves into a corner when they decided on the real time training. Why would a new player want to join a game where older players have over a decade of skills, and no possible way to catch up? Not many want to join a game just to be a punching bag. The game is just not that new player friendly. Sure, you can specialize, but is that really an attractive option when there are so many other options now? When Eve came out in 2003 there were only a handful of MMO’s. Now there are hundreds of MMO’s, co-op games, console MMO games and even today’s single player sandbox games you can literally put in thousands of hours. Combine all that together and there’s your market share loss. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/308 "2018-01-22T21:51:03Z")
> [@Viktor\_Calies](#): > > no possible way to catch up There are more ways than ever, not including the ones actually built into the training system. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/309 "2018-01-22T21:51:20Z")
As a family man, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/310 "2018-01-22T21:53:04Z")
> [@Viktor\_Calies](#): > > no possible way to catch up Skill injectors are literally and explicitly a way to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![Viktor\_Calies](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/viktor_calies/32/50577_2.png) [@Viktor\_Calies](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Viktor_Calies)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/311 "2018-01-22T22:04:13Z")
Ahh, right. I actually forgot about those. From what I remember now they were very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/312 "2018-01-22T22:10:28Z")
The expense is player determined so… ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/313 "2018-01-22T22:37:02Z")
> [@Viktor\_Calies](#): > > no possible way to catch up Specialisation. If a player has eleventybillion SP and can fly all of the things, only part of that eleventybillion is invested in each ship class; you can compete with them in say frigates or cruisers, on a fairly level playing field SPwise in a matter of weeks. Experience is what takes the time to acquire, that is an older player’s advantage, not their SP. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/314 "2018-01-22T23:53:44Z")
Its actually what is the reason which ties you up to this game. You could continue burning personal time while being a family guy. I used to know much singles who said “i’m done” with this game. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/315 "2018-01-24T04:46:27Z")
> [@Viktor\_Calies](#): > > Another reason I believe is that they kind of painted themselves into a corner when they decided on the real time training. Why would a new player want to join a game where older players have over a decade of skills, and no possible way to catch up? Not many want to join a game just to be a punching bag. The game is just not that new player friendly. Sure, you can specialize, but is that really an attractive option when there are so many other options now? Sheesh…you know this is such a common view and…actually is a load of nonsense. When I started the game the veterans had tens of millions of SP on me. But now years later I have 159 million SP. So yeah, in many regards I have “caught up” I can use all T2 cruisers. All battleships, I can use all racial T2 guns up through large. In fact, I should probably look at the ships I can’t use as it would be the shorter list. Further, when you are in a given ship you are relying only on a subset of skill points. If I am in a claw, all my SP in gallente carrier, gallente dreadnought, capital ships, all the skills for cruisers of all races, recon ships, etc. are absolutely…wait…wait…wait…useless. That millions and millions of SP. In fact, here is list Gallente Dreadnought 4, Minmatar Dreadnough 5, Gallente Carrier 4, Amarr Carrier 4, Caldari Carrier 4, Amarr Tactical Destroyer 4, Minmatar Tactical Destroyer 5, Gallente Strategic Cruiser 5, Caldari Strategic Cruiser 4, Heavy Assault Cruiser 5, Recon Ships 5, Gallente Cruiser 5, Minmatar Cruiser 5, Caldari Cruiser 5, Amarr Cruiser 5, Transport Ships 4, Logistics Cruisers 5, Heavy Interdiction Cruisers 5, Interdictors 5, Amarr Battlecruiser 5, Caldari Battlecruiser 5, Gallente Battlecruiser 5, Minmatar Battlecruiser 5. All of those skills and the associated skill points do nothing to help me use a claw. Same with the 6.7 million SP in fleet support skills. Same for the nearly 3.88 million SP in subsystems. My nearly 8.4 million SP in missiles useless in a claw. It is not uncommon for a new player to say, “He has 159 million SP how can I ever expect to win!!!” Well, what ship am I in? Once I’m in a ship…most of my SP become largely useless. Granted I have lots more options, but once I pick one of those options the SP that do not enhance that option are useless. And the benefit of more SP is one of decreasing returns. And high SP does not make one an unstoppable juggernaut. During the fight in Cloud Ring yesterday neither side sent in 1 dude with 210 million SP to defeat hundreds of other players. And yeah…skill injectors are expensive. You want in days or less what has taken me 10 years of old fashioned SP acquisition. ---
**Author:** ![Xpaulusx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xpaulusx/32/167504_2.png) [@Xpaulusx](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xpaulusx)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/316 "2018-01-24T07:02:15Z")
Sounds like somebody has entirely too much time on there hands. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/317 "2018-01-24T07:33:28Z")
Uhhh…what? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/318 "2018-01-24T08:26:31Z")
Maybe they were comparing their typing speed to the post you wrote, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/319 "2018-01-24T08:56:39Z")
Eve has changed lots since I first played in 2003, many players left due to this. Also IMO Eve is the most unique game on the market and requires lots of time and dedication in order to advance which is still rare in the gaming world. Time spent on eve can be an issue for some, many of us have been playing for over 6 years, many of the pilots I met played for a good 6 to 10 hours per day. If were not careful eve can impact our lives negatively due to the large amounts of time spent on it, I’m sure many people quit for this reason. ---
**Author:** ![Anjyl\_Took](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anjyl_took/32/31967_2.png) [@Anjyl\_Took](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anjyl_Took)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/320 "2018-01-24T18:59:30Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Sheesh…you know this is such a common view and…actually is a load of nonsense. Truth has been spoken. I really mean this, and see I don’t oppose everything you say, nor is anything personal. When I give you crap, it’s because you’re wrong, not because you’re you. Here you are not wrong. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/321 "2018-01-25T06:17:32Z")
Problem is, I’m not wrong. Things like coevolution are not just confined to biology or computer algorithms anymore. See [here](https://ostromworkshop.indiana.edu/pdf/seriespapers/2015f_r/muellerpaper.pdf). And [here](http://grantome.com/grant/NSF/DBI-9201536). Here is a quote from that last link, > In the past few years, work carried out on diverse fronts by a small number of physicists, biologists, mathematicians, and economists, has begun to suggest a broad new conceptual framework and candidate universal features of such coevolution: Complex coevolving systems may evolve the the edge of chaos. The new theory is built upon the recognition that such coevolving systems, whether symbionts or interlocked firms, mutually build the world they jointly inhabit. ---
**Author:** ![Ranzabar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranzabar/32/254217_2.png) [@Ranzabar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranzabar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/323 "2018-01-26T03:12:51Z")
I think you stated most of the reasons why I play Eve. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=17)