# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/41 "2018-01-16T23:59:47Z")
Victim: EVE Online Top Damage Ship: CCP Pilot: Hilmar Weapon: Microtransactions Ammunition: 70$ monocles Item(s) Dropped 1000$ pants post Subscriptions ---
**Author:** ![Memphis\_Baas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/memphis_baas/32/10413_2.png) [@Memphis\_Baas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Memphis_Baas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/42 "2018-01-17T00:01:09Z")
[Nothing recent](https://zkillboard.com/character/94156188/), so it’s more like he heard about Alpha, logged in to see what’s what, and, wellp, PIRAT still exists and is still wardeccing, so… big “I quit” thread. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/43 "2018-01-17T00:02:31Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Ammunition: 70$ monocles I thought they killed WiS to atone for that? 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/44 "2018-01-17T00:11:37Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/e/de563b38278f50b1c4e93011eec11e785c268356.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Khergit\_Deserters](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khergit_deserters/32/319315_2.png) [@Khergit\_Deserters](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khergit_Deserters)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/45 "2018-01-17T01:30:03Z")
I used to think the same as OP. “Eve people are griefers, bullies, sadists, sociopaths. Meanies.” But along the way, I found there’s a kind of basic code of honor and behavior. Goes about like this: -If I can be clever enough to trick you into to opening your wallet or to explode your ship-- goody for me! -If you get upset about it-- LOL, bad on you. -If you take the loss and laugh it off, or plot your revenge, or do anything else except get emotional and aggrieved about it-- o7 mate, good on both of us. That’s the general code of conduct. Am I right, or close to right? ---
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 3:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/46 "2018-01-17T03:13:48Z")
more or less. its a game and thus a sport, and you can be sportsmanlike about your losses. ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 6:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/47 "2018-01-17T06:18:39Z")
T1 haulers is a game of EHP vs sheer hauling capacity. And quite frankly if you can deal with only having ~4-5K cargo capacity you can have ~38K EHP for as little as 4.2 million ISK on a Badger. The Sigil can be even tankier and clock in at over 50K EHP but has really really bad cargo and costs over 15m to pull it off. Or you can take that same Badger and for about 7m ISK get 14-18K m3 cargo space and ~21K EHP. But you align slower and are far squishier. You choice on how much risk you are willing to take on. But with that said… the 38K EHP Badger for 4.2m is basically a losing proposition to gank for any load under ~50m in the cargo hold. They simply have to want to spend a message rather than make a profit or be incredibly bored to make that gank. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 6:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/48 "2018-01-17T06:38:28Z")
To the OP coming from a decade old active eve player:Get good or get lost. ---
**Author:** ![Loutro\_Fift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loutro_fift/32/195473_2.png) [@Loutro\_Fift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loutro_Fift)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/49 "2018-01-17T07:13:20Z")
Guess OP doesn’t get the survival of the fittest theory. And to think real life is safer than Eve is just naive. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/50 "2018-01-17T08:22:05Z")
> [@Loutro\_Fift](#): > > Guess OP doesn’t get the survival of the fittest theory. I’m guessing YOU are the one who doesn’t understand the survival of the fittest theory. If you define it as one cell in your body, then none of your cells are fit to survive. Similarly, if you define it as the propogation of you, your own self and nothing else, then . . . that’s one way of looking at it. The OP seems to be looking at it from a wider viewpoint, a system-wide viewpoint. Think about it this way: if the cells in your foot were complete [expletive deleted] and took all available resources and grew beyond their “intended” size and purpose, YOU would die and thus THEY would die. That’s not “fitness”; is it? hth ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 9:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/51 "2018-01-17T09:38:46Z")
> [@Khergit\_Deserters](#): > > -If you get upset about it-- LOL, bad on you. Something wasn’t sitting right with me about this post and I think I’ve finally figured out what it is. EVE players have a reputation for going to extreme lengths to get other players, to blow up their ships and steal their ISK and possessions, to destroy others’ organizations, etc. The thing is that all of that isn’t really necessary, except in the case that you don’t actually want to play a game. Playing a game is taking a risk, by definition. You can lose a game. A game you can’t lose (or can’t win) is not a game. So when you say that others should not get upset, on the one hand, but applaud all the scheming, planning, metagaming, etc. on the other hand, I think you are letting one party off the hook. They wouldn’t be doing all of that if they were willing to simply lose sometimes. The guy who stacks the deck, loads the dice, or what have you, does so because he is unwilling to lose. He behaves in an unsporting manner precisely BECAUSE he cares too much about the outcome of the game. If he didn’t, he would just roll the dice and let the chips fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/52 "2018-01-17T09:52:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Bastard](#): > > The game needs to be biased toward the lawful and well behaved players, and unfair to the pirates, suicide gankers, corporate thieves, etc. That’s it. Just that simple. Like all the other games you mean? No thank you. I’ve actually interacted with other players in EVE in ways that cover the whole spectrum of possible human behaviours, from extremes of helpfulness, charity, kindness and support to extremes of unkindess, theft and violence. That’s quite an achievement for a game. To allow for one extreme or the other, and everything in between. Not an achievement one should so casually seek to undo. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/53 "2018-01-17T09:55:27Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > I want to see the killmail that caused this thread 🙂 My guess was the OP got scammed, like the guy in Jita who just sold 1100 PLEX for 3 million instead of 3 billion because he didn’t double check the 000’s 😮 He blames the scammer by the way, which to me is like shooting yourself in the head and then blaming the gun. He probably wants the game changed in the same ways the OP does. ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/54 "2018-01-17T10:08:00Z")
> [@Memphis\_Baas](#): > > THEY are playing the game correctly, or at least as intended by the developers. Everyone who sits in high-sec mining or soloing missions, imagining they’re some sort of Han Solo flying their special little ship… the game does not support that. Sorry, but you’re wrong…the game according to CCP absolutely supports that type of play. This is an extract straight from the new player handbook. **"In EVE you are free to choose your own destiny. You start out as a character from** **one of the four major factions that rule the universe. Each faction starts** **off with a very similar skill set and you can develop your character in any** **direction you want. You are not restricted by predefined character classes** **or professions. You can trade to make a living, conduct mining operations,** **market your fighting skills as a mercenary, roam the spacelanes as a pirate,** **conduct espionage and infiltration, focus on research and manufacturing,** **or perform increasingly profitable missions for NPC (non-player controlled)** **agents. What you choose to do day by day is up to you. You can play alone,** **form a corporation (equivalent to a clan or guild) with a group of friends** **or seek entrance to any of the large player-run corporations and alliances** **which are already established. The EVE Universe and its more than 7,600** **unique solar systems are yours to explore and conquer."** ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/55 "2018-01-17T10:14:40Z")
> [@Dark\_Engraver](#): > > To the OP coming from a decade old active eve player:Get good or get lost. If that’s all the advice you can come up with after 10 years of playing I think you just proved some of his points for him. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 10:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/56 "2018-01-17T10:22:48Z")
And you can join him if my opinion offends you. ---
**Author:** ![Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ralph_king-griffin/32/252855_2.png) [@Ralph\_King-Griffin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ralph_King-Griffin)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/57 "2018-01-17T10:33:55Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I’m guessing YOU are the one who doesn’t understand the survival of the fittest theory. If you define it as one cell in your body, then none of your cells are fit to survive. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/c/8c8d7ca431fc176b476baaffa5efc7b99e81de2d.gif) ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/58 "2018-01-17T12:07:41Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > bla bla bla bla, make the game more boring and millions of people will want to play it, bla bla bla bla think of the children. millions of well-behaved people, mind you. and their children. all they wait for is the csm to address substance abuse of capsuleers. how can ccp not see this? ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/59 "2018-01-17T12:30:13Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I’m guessing YOU are the one who doesn’t understand the survival of the fittest theory. This statement make the scientist in me cringe… This applies only to biological evolution. Not so much on the social level. –Cringing Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/60 "2018-01-17T12:42:10Z")
While I agree with this sentiment for the most part. It should be kept in mind that a single battle, score, operation, or whatever is not the whole game. Sometimes, being over-the-top ruthless in a particular instance, might help the overall game for the player. On a macro-level, though, I agree completely. –Gadget - playing the whole game [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=4)