# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Ragionier\_Sunji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragionier_sunji/32/56713_2.png) [@Ragionier\_Sunji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragionier_Sunji)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/670 "2018-04-07T16:39:12Z")
Well, I assumed no one would take that too seriously. That’s my fault for forgetting you existed. ---
**Author:** ![Ragionier\_Sunji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragionier_sunji/32/56713_2.png) [@Ragionier\_Sunji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragionier_Sunji)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/671 "2018-04-07T16:46:56Z")
Whoah, that was a long post! Can I add a TL:DR? “To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand EVE Online…” I’m kidding, I’m kidding. Still, I’m not so sure this is all PC culture’s fault. If you go into the world chat of most other “dumbed down” games, you’ll always find someone railing against it and would agree with what you said. If your equation was correct, wouldn’t those people be more than happy to at least try out Eve? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/672 "2018-04-07T17:24:13Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > And here’s an “idiot” who doesn’t know a thing about History! If you are going to refute that suggestion, merely calling him an idiot in a one liner is not going to do it. I would however be most intrigued about what he defines as the collapse of the ancient Greeks, because there are a number of points in time which could be defined as the collapse of ancient Greece, was it when Rome made Greece a province, was it when Macedon defeated Athens, who at that point was heavily influenced by a demagogue. I would think he was defining decadence as a loss of virtue by those in charge and a general decadence in terms of pursuit of pleasures and lazy thinking. You could say that decadence was at the heart of the fall of the Roman Empire too and we are seeing the same thing play out here and now in the west, which Sol alludes to. I have exchanged with Sol a bit recently on Discord, if he is who I think he is and I most certainly would not call him an idiot. > [@Gretek\_Moergyn](#): > > And who decides who belongs in EVE and who doesn’t? You? Actually you do as the player. @Gretek_Moergyn A lot of players are confused about Eve, it is a hard game and my attitude about certain areas are that they were or are to easy, can flipping to me was terrible as a mechanic as it gave very easy kills, but to other players it removed the hardness, that is a matter of perception. So for me that was not hard for the aggressor, though it is correct now, others will see it as making the game as a whole easier. Who is right? Bumping for example meets my definition as making it too easy, and funny enough when I go after them I get told I am a raging carebear who wants to make Eve safe, but in reality I am pushing to make it harder. Recently had an exchange with Salvos, on local, at this point I think the balance is right because it is hard to hunt, but enough people die, it is not a walk in the park. For me the balance is correct. People will argue that it is too easy to rat safely, and that is a case when they rat with supers, but they make their own situation in using a ship which is not exactly easy to catch and kill and expensive, but that is not ISK tanking. This is the essence of Eve, it is supposed to be hard and is, but it is not hard in all areas, and as such you have to work back if that suits you. It suits me… ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/673 "2018-04-07T18:19:02Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > If you are going to refute that suggestion, merely calling him and idiot in a one liner is not going to do it. I would however be most intrigued about what he defines as the collapse of the ancient Greeks, because there are a number of points in time which could be defined as the collapse of ancient Greece, was it when Rome made Greece a province, was it when Macedon defeated Athens, who at that point was heavily influenced by a demagogue. I would think he was defining decadence as a loss of virtue by those in charge and a general decadence in terms of pursuit of pleasures and lazy thinking. yeah, lets make up our own History and ignore the Historians and all their hard work! Let’s wait to see how some forum troll defines “decadence”! This way we will no longer have to wonder why people have such a low opinion of gamers! ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/674 "2018-04-07T19:49:34Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > yeah, lets make up our own History and ignore the Historians and all their hard work! That is a nothing statement, historians often interpret Lord Norwich did a fantastic three book series on Byzantium, but he failed to understand their main enemy, still brilliant books. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Let’s wait to see how some forum troll defines “decadence”! Decadence is easy to understand, I was more interested in what he defined as the collapse of ancient Greece. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > This way we will no longer have to wonder why people have such a low opinion of gamers! Most people who play games like Eve are of above average intelligence. And in being so I don’t give a monkey’s what they think of gamer’s as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/676 "2018-04-07T20:10:35Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > you can call it ‘nothing’ all you want to, you’re still just a bunch of childish trolls, and the work of actual Historians is still of inestimable value to all of humanity! Your statement means nothing, you have not refuted his statement with anything, you just called him an idiot. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Your babbling is still nothing but babbling. Sorry but this: > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > yeah, lets make up our own History and ignore the Historians and all their hard work! Is babbling. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > And only a fool would buy into the idea that playing a game that was poorly planned, poorly designed and poorly developed requires a higher degree of intelligence! You can’t even produce meaningful pvp in this game! the combat requires no Thought, it has no depth and offers no challenge! Just look at any Alliance Tournament. The team that turns of the ECM first wins! No Depth, No strategy, No Thought! Is that what “intelligent” people do??? You could not be more wrong if you tried, there is a huge amount of complexity in this game, the planning that goes into large battles is immense, seriously mate you have no idea at all. You should go try some major fleet battles and interact with the people doing the planning and fleet comp, then you would understand. Eve is a game for intelligent players. ---
**Author:** ![Vortexo\_VonBrenner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vortexo_vonbrenner/32/64874_2.png) [@Vortexo\_VonBrenner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vortexo_VonBrenner)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/677 "2018-04-07T20:21:17Z")
I dunno about anybody else, but I want some greek yogurt now… ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/1/11bcd0c59f5ddaed9db514ee4c349570922f8d2a.jpg) @Solstice_Projekt - if you like Carlin’s and Fry’s observations about human nature and how things are you might very well find machiavelli’s book “The Prince” interesting. It’s about the nature of the human exercise of power and is slightly disturbing in it’s revealing of our selves. Very good book, five stars. My personal plan as far as EvE decline or not is to keep playing it as long as I still enjoy it - that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/678 "2018-04-07T21:38:31Z")
It is almost if there is a fascinating discussion that could take place…but one side refuses to take part in that discussion and prefers to make idiotic insults… ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/679 "2018-04-07T22:30:45Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > You could not be more wrong if you tried, there is a huge amount of complexity in this game, the planning that goes into large battles is immense, Yes, the “planning” of “large battles”! It takes “large battles” to distract the players from the fact that there is no Depth, No Strategy, and No Thought in the pvp of EVE Online. the Alliance Tournament is all you need to see to know that EVE Online is as idiotic as it gets, one team turns on ECM then wipes out the other team without losing a single ship in the process! EVE Online is poorly planned, poorly designed, and poorly developed, the people that made it had no clue what they were doing and worst of all had nothing that they were aiming at! As a result the game is jumble of failed systems. It’s totally understandable that you confuse navigating gibberish with complexity. NONE of the interactions in this game were “intentional”, all of the interactions in this game are just Cyberbullies taking advantage of failed systems. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 10:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/680 "2018-04-07T22:40:43Z")
I’m just glad you stay around and try to rescue us from this bad game. Do you still dream about the day you lost that Mammoth? ---
**Author:** ![Auto-da-fe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/auto-da-fe/32/53227_2.png) [@Auto-da-fe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Auto-da-fe)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/681 "2018-04-07T22:45:53Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > I’m just glad you stay around and try to rescue us from this bad game. Do you still dream about the day you lost that Mammoth? only need to browse the forums to see that this is a game enjoyed by Cyberbullies and Trolls. With the help of CCP’s outright deceptive advertising, you guys can enjoy an endless wave of victims to Gatecamp, suicide gank, and troll. In short, the fact that you like EVE Online means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/682 "2018-04-08T00:00:51Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/5/254f53a1f47365d0a59b7b32d9f9224401813f3b.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/683 "2018-04-08T00:40:11Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > only need to browse the forums to see that this is a game enjoyed by Cyberbullies and Trolls. With the help of CCP’s outright deceptive advertising, you guys can enjoy an endless wave of victims to Gatecamp, suicide gank, and troll. > > In short, the fact that you like EVE Online means nothing. Fair enough. Football (all flavors), basketball, baseball, cricket, hockey, etc. - These games are enjoyed by Cyberbullies and Trolls. All one need to do is read a team forums. And how can every team be the best…at the same time? Their advertising would lead you to believe that this is actually possible. The fact that one might enjoy sport, means nothing. Am I doing this right?? * * * Seriously, though. If only Cyberbullies want to be here…welcome home? –Gadget roots for the Falcons… does that make her a masochist? ---
**Author:** ![Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chewytowel_haklar/32/420292_2.png) [@Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chewytowel_Haklar)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/684 "2018-04-08T02:47:46Z")
Clearly the game is flawed and must be recreated to serve the PC crowd so that it may not be flawed. Only then can PC justice rain supreme! We will play the way THEY determine, and think the way THEY think or we are bad people. ---
**Author:** ![Alopex-Lagopus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alopex-lagopus/32/407823_2.png) [@Alopex-Lagopus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alopex-Lagopus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/685 "2018-04-08T02:57:00Z")
Is EVE not big enough for everyone? 😕 Could certain regions be under slightly different subsets and/or parameters? ---
**Author:** ![Tasspool\_Harp](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tasspool_harp/32/144213_2.png) [@Tasspool\_Harp](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tasspool_Harp)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/686 "2018-04-08T02:57:30Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I have exchanged with Sol a bit recently on Discord, **if he is who I think he is** and I most certainly would not call him an idiot. I think he is the same person who started this thread. Possibly the biggest rant against CCP I’ve read on the forums since I’ve been playing. > [@Yellow parasol speech\_balloon](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/yellow-parasol/50316): > > The only good ways of protesting are this, and spamming people with convos and unsubbing. See… the problem isn’t just that more and more people are getting upset. Being upset simply is not enough, because as long as people simply express their disagreement, they simply do not need to care at all. It’s about “what we do, not what we say”, remember? They will not stop shoving this half-assedly thought out stuff down our throats, because they simply do not need to, as long as people just complain… ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/687 "2018-04-08T04:00:08Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Gadget roots for the Falcons… does that make her a masochist? No. Everyone should favor whichever team is playing against the Patriots. ---
**Author:** ![Nicky\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicky_adoudel/32/65104_2.png) [@Nicky\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicky_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/688 "2018-04-08T04:10:10Z")
The game is not flawed. EVE is unique in promoting player adaptation – other players adapting to you, and you adapting to them. That some other player morally judges you should be the most minor of challenges; can they blow up your starbases or something? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/689 "2018-04-08T08:00:43Z")
> [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > Yes, the “planning” of “large battles”! It takes “large battles” to distract the players from the fact that there is no Depth, No Strategy, and No Thought in the pvp of EVE Online. the Alliance Tournament is all you need to see to know that EVE Online is as idiotic as it gets, one team turns on ECM then wipes out the other team without losing a single ship in the process! Also when you get into them, the capital side of these battles is truly very interesting, which is why more and more I am getting involved in that side of thing. Space superiority fighter battles, attacking a Fort from range, this is cool stuff. > [@Auto-da-fe](#): > > EVE Online is poorly planned, poorly designed, and poorly developed, the people that made it had no clue what they were doing and worst of all had nothing that they were aiming at! As a result the game is jumble of failed systems. It’s totally understandable that you confuse navigating gibberish with complexity. NONE of the interactions in this game were “intentional”, all of the interactions in this game are just Cyberbullies taking advantage of failed systems. There is strategic and tactical complexity in this game, you just don’t see it. Yes there are people taking advantage of failed mechanics, I agree with you and I have and will continue to rail against them, you might not have noticed but I am very anti-bumping because I see it as a failed mechanic. I am actively making suggestions in the war dec discord, I would not however call war dec a failed system, as it is pretty good, however there are things that need adjustment and the issue is that hisec has largely become such a stale place. Every game has issues and needs re-balance. But still the changes to caps put in place by the guy who used to play as Dark Razor are damn awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2018, 8:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/690 "2018-04-08T08:09:27Z")
I have found him interesting to talk to on Discord, does not mean I agree with him, but there are certain areas that I do. He is not an idiot, far from it. And I should point out that I have exchanged with him on General Discussion before and it got heated, but General Discussion is at its heart where people do forum warfare Yeah that thread was one area that I do disagree with him, but here is the rub, I understand that thread, because at one point I sort of did a post like that, and the reason was because I cared about the game and did not agree with the changes, which especially screwed me over, it was the change to refining… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=33) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=35)