# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![T-945FII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t-945fii/32/376747_2.png) [@T-945FII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T-945FII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/918 "2018-04-30T12:00:52Z")
Now now don’t be a dickhead. I think the post was “the reason player population is decline” and you are part of tat problem. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/919 "2018-04-30T12:01:08Z")
Population declining is cos people dont like the game. Someone /thread me. PS: 911 post. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/920 "2018-04-30T12:02:27Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > Jesus f4cking Christ - Like I said, no thanks ill go play other games. > > What the f4ck is it with you Eve-online dweebs? > > Numbers are declining in the game and all you can say is “go play another game” err derrr I already am and thats the f4cking problem. We rather just don’t have a game full of toxic kids. Bye ---
**Author:** ![T-945FII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t-945fii/32/376747_2.png) [@T-945FII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T-945FII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/921 "2018-04-30T12:16:28Z")
lolz. /me finds it hard understanding relating “toxic kids” to “People put real money, real effort and real time into the game and to see that go up in a suicide gank is rather frustrating”… you know trying to shed some light on why people don’t like spending time in Eve. Yer know trying to answer the question about declining numbers. Yer know like trying to shed light and remember what the pull of eve was originally, 10+ years ago, but ey what do i know apparently i’m being toxic in stating why i don’t like Eve any longer. OK then. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/922 "2018-04-30T12:18:26Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > OK then. Dont worry. Ima is well known as one of the most toxic posters here. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/923 "2018-04-30T12:22:56Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > Now now don’t be a dickhead. I think the post was “the reason player population is decline” and you are part of tat problem. I am part of the solution actually. Whiners like you are not needed in the game. People who pay for one or more accounts are. I have paid accounts, and for many years already. ---
**Author:** ![T-945FII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t-945fii/32/376747_2.png) [@T-945FII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T-945FII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/924 "2018-04-30T12:31:17Z")
If whining is me providing my reason to the question of “The real reasons player population is declining”, then we’re in trouble mr solution. ---
**Author:** ![Crash\_888](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/crash_888/32/357008_2.png) [@Crash\_888](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Crash_888)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/925 "2018-04-30T12:47:48Z")
The one no brainer way to get returners is through expansions which they stupidly stopped for 4 years, even if they now realized that mistake and now walked it back. (A nonsense decision in the first place since frequent balances passes could always be done in patches in between, expansions did not prevent that is any way). ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/926 "2018-04-30T12:53:51Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > /me finds it hard understanding relating “toxic kids” to “People put real money, real effort and real time into the game and to see that go up in a suicide gank is rather frustrating”… you know trying to shed some light on why people don’t like spending time in Eve. Yer know trying to answer the question about declining numbers. Yer know like trying to shed light and remember what the pull of eve was originally, 10+ years ago, but ey what do i know apparently i’m being toxic in stating why i don’t like Eve any longer. OK then. I am curious why you think this is only becoming a problem now? Eve has never had a “safe space” and suicide ganking has been a thing since CONCORD were introduced. If fact, given how much easier it is to acquire stuff and how much richer everyone is now than 10+ years ago, losing stuff to suicide gankers likely doesn’t hurt nearly as much today as in the past. Yet, a decade ago, suicide ganking didn’t seem to keep people away from Eve - in fact this is the era of Eve where player numbers grew the fastest. I accept that maybe you have lost your tolerance for playing a competitive game where stuff you think of as yours can be exploded or stolen by another player, but it seems unlikely that somehow the “frustration” of a suicide gank is driving players away given that has always been a part of the game. It’s also one that is easy to avoid and not something most veteran players experience given how many ways there are to minimize that risk to near zero once you understand the mechanics. 🤷‍♂️ I don’t have the answer, only theories, of why the player population is declining/stagnating, but whenever this idea is put forth I am perplexed. I see zero evidence that highsec safety is linked to player numbers, and if anything, the correlation between the two is opposite of what one would expect given that highsec has never been safer mechanically, after almost a decade of continual nerfs to highsec crime. One would predict that if this was the explanation, player counts would have spiked after each of these buffs to highsec safety, but in fact they only seem to trend further down after each nerf to the criminals. So much so, I think the carebear axiom that more safety equals more players is fully debunked at this point. Eve resembles a safe version of FarmVille-in-space as it ever has at this point, and player numbers are nowhere near their peak, nor show signs of returning there anytime soon. In any case, if you don’t find Eve fun anymore, stop playing. No shame in that. Your reason why you don’t want to play is also perfectly valid and don’t let anyone convince you otherwise. I am skeptical that it at all extrapolates to the whole player base, but it is your reason and your leisure time so do what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/927 "2018-04-30T13:02:07Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > /me finds it hard understanding relating “toxic kids” to “People put real money, real effort and real time into the game and to see that go up in a suicide gank is rather frustrating”… Losing at games is frustrating sometimes. In EVE loss hurts a lot and winning is epic. If you rather play games that don’t trigger real emotions and just satisfy your need for instant gratification, go on there are hundreds of other games for you. What we don’t need is people who cry for changes to mechanics which are part of the game for 15 years just because they did something stupid, can’t handle the loss and take responsibility for their own actions. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/928 "2018-04-30T13:10:17Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > If whining is me providing my reason to the question of “The real reasons player population is declining”, then we’re in trouble mr solution. Your “reason” has been debated ad nauseum and was debunked by CCP years ago as a reason why people leave the game. So you are indeed whining because your reason is invalid as an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/929 "2018-04-30T13:14:45Z")
Well, people are leaving. Whether you find their reasons “valid” doesnt change anything. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/930 "2018-04-30T13:18:19Z")
People that leave because they got pvp’ed never belonged in EVE in the first place lol ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/931 "2018-04-30T13:18:46Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Whether you find their reasons “valid” doesnt change anything. As a reason for an individual player it is obviously valid. Projecting this on everyone else and claim it is THE reason why most other players quit is not. CCP looked into the matter and only \< 1% of players cited ship loss as a reason. If you want to find the REAL reason look at the other \> 99% ---
**Author:** ![T-945FII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t-945fii/32/376747_2.png) [@T-945FII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T-945FII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/932 "2018-04-30T13:29:33Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > The game has become a joke. People put real money, real effort and real time into the game and to see that go up in a suicide gank is rather frustrating. No thanks I’ll go play other games. I think that’s my exact words so stop with the sugar coating it your Bullsh|!|t. and the thing about your James 315 bullsh!t is that’s almost 3 years old. whilst a nice survey might list things in drop down menu’s to make it easy to filter and analyse, you are right my reason for not putting any more effort into this game is due to finding other games more entertaining. Get over it. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/933 "2018-04-30T13:37:40Z")
> [@T-945FII](#): > > The game has become a joke. People put real money, real effort and real time into the game and to see that go up in a suicide gank is rather frustrating. No thanks I’ll go play other games. > > I think that’s my exact words so stop with the sugar coating it your Bullsh|!|t. and the thing about your James 315 bullsh!t is that’s almost 3 years old. whilst a nice survey might list things in drop down menu’s to make it easy to filter and analyse, you are right my reason for not putting any more effort into this game is due to finding other games more entertaining. Get over it. ENOUGH ! … what with the cod self-censorship of “swear-y” words … and now self-repetition. @ CCP / ISD / uncle Tom Cobblers & All … can we please close this thread now? Everyone’s had their say, and no-one is listening. As per usual. Enough already. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/934 "2018-04-30T14:10:52Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > CCP looked into the matter and only \< 1% of players cited ship loss as a reason. If you want to find the REAL reason look at the other \> 99% You know (or should) that the validity of these are very low. Also you made an error above, in that the other “99%” of respondents did give a reason and they are known too as such. But we dont know how many leavers bothered to reply, or if they had multiple reasons in leaving aside from the one they chose in the questionnaire. Dont do the “studies show” thing on this. Their validity is very questionable, for many reasons. * * * I get stressing them as a propaganda tool for forum/opinion warfare, but their scientific validity is close to zero. A Bachelor student of any science that constructed/enacted their study as CCP did on these, would receive a failing grade. They really are that bad. They pretty much break every rule in the scientific method for a study in terms of structure/content of questionnaire, applicability, controls etc. They are about as valid, as if I made a poll here on this board and called it a “study”. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/935 "2018-04-30T14:45:23Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > You know (or should) that the validity of these are very low. Look, I don’t know how you form an opinion. But I certainly take the claims of a game developer who has a vast interest in the truth (because this is about money he earns) and who seemed to make an effort looking into the matter as more serious than the simple one-data-point opinion of a mad carebear who projects his hurt feelings about a ship he lost on everyone else. I don’t say the study is flawless. But it’s infinitely better information than simple gut feelings, and pure guessing, which is what you do since you can’t present any other data. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/936 "2018-04-30T14:49:40Z")
I’ll just leave this here as a reminder that salvos doesn’t like facts lolll > [@Where are new characters getting killed?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/where-are-new-characters-getting-killed/60007): > > Seen an influx of opinions on where new players are dying in EVE Online. Since I have a nice database of both killmails, and character history, I wanted to take a look for myself and understand where these folks keep losing their ships. Since I pulled the data, figured I would share. [download] N=610. Characters were less than 7 days old at the time of loss. 30 days of data as of 2018-02-26 Kill per unique characterID per category. Ship + pod loss counts as 1. Single pod loss counts as 1. gan… ---
**Author:** ![T-945FII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t-945fii/32/376747_2.png) [@T-945FII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T-945FII)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/937 "2018-04-30T14:57:25Z")
so eve is full of 90 day old characters? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=45) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=47)