# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/143 "2018-01-17T23:41:47Z")
Any named “advantage” leveraged by people who want to gank and pvp has a counter advantage that can be leveraged by those who dont. ---
**Author:** ![Duranor\_Stone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duranor_stone/32/49418_2.png) [@Duranor\_Stone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duranor_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/144 "2018-01-17T23:44:19Z")
Pretty sure that there are more hardcore games that are easy to get but hard to master are out there to play now as well… they usually have a very niche playerbase but I often hear they come from eve online and all that. So not really suprised that might want to do something in between waiting for there month waiting on skill gain. ---
**Author:** ![Chili\_Klaus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chili_klaus/32/246541_2.png) [@Chili\_Klaus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chili_Klaus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/145 "2018-01-17T23:54:07Z")
It’s funny how many people are in here to tell OP how wrong he is. Maybe he’s on to something. ---
**Author:** ![Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sindara_t_soni/32/242945_2.png) [@Sindara\_T\_Soni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sindara_T_Soni)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/146 "2018-01-18T00:09:11Z")
> [@Chili\_Klaus](#): > > It’s funny how many people are in here to tell OP how wrong he is. Maybe he’s on to something. So that’s how logic works on your planet? The more evidence there is that someone is wrong the more right they are? Fantastic! 🙃 ---
**Author:** ![StonerPhReaK](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stonerphreak/32/391015_2.png) [@StonerPhReaK](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/StonerPhReaK)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/147 "2018-01-18T00:10:08Z")
Or on something but will not admit it. Its prolly legal too. I’m just here to read an opinion on what another person thinks the “real reasons” are behind the declining population. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/148 "2018-01-18T00:32:00Z")
Welcome to EvE-O GD! Where you… Okay its in german… but whatever what am I your mom geez, ---
**Author:** ![benduin2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/benduin2/32/37540_2.png) [@benduin2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/benduin2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/149 "2018-01-18T00:39:26Z")
an interesting experiment ccp could do is make a new server where you cant turn safety off in highsec. make safe space truly safe…i wonder how many would actually transfer/start a toon on that server?..that would be something that would end the argument of what people really want ---
**Author:** ![benduin2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/benduin2/32/37540_2.png) [@benduin2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/benduin2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/150 "2018-01-18T00:50:32Z")
its the same few people who always post…they seem to think their opinion is the final word…though to be honest ccp seems to listen to the few same posters ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/151 "2018-01-18T01:00:09Z")
> [@Hiasa\_Kite](#): > > Didn’t freighters recently get a significant 25% buff to their hulls? Yes and the response was for the foolish and imprudent to anti-tank their freighters. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/152 "2018-01-18T01:00:47Z")
And would you change your mind if it was a wasteland? Id change mine if everyone went there. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/153 "2018-01-18T01:05:54Z")
Having a completely safe zone in which people could farm ISK and other resources would almost surely be unbalanced and while initially popular it would quickly fade and turn into a wasteland. ---
**Author:** ![Terralynn\_Khanid](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/terralynn_khanid/32/41977_2.png) [@Terralynn\_Khanid](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Terralynn_Khanid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/154 "2018-01-18T01:07:01Z")
25k people average now, same as 10 years ago… \*shrugs ---
**Author:** ![benduin2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/benduin2/32/37540_2.png) [@benduin2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/benduin2)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/155 "2018-01-18T01:07:06Z")
that is your opinion…the only true test would be to make such a server. you cant argue that… one of the biggest complaints by “carebears” is ganking…lets face it…people who stick to highsec tend to be the pve types. they arent interested in pvp…and you cant make them. such a server would prove whether it would have a retaining value or not…of course allow wardecs and such but it would cut out ganking. i suspect we would know how well it would do within about 6 months…because it would cutout pretty much only ganking…let the flames fly but they will only come from ganker types ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/156 "2018-01-18T01:39:52Z")
Maybe, but the people telling him so run the gamut of personality types. He’s saying it _must be this way,_ and we’re just saying it’s _not that way._ I mind you, we very seldom agree on much else - just check out some posts from last year… We don’t always agree as a group on what EvE is. This game means something different to us all. BUT, most of us do have an idea of what EvE is NOT. –Gadget likes her EvE ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/157 "2018-01-18T01:43:52Z")
The SAFEST place in EvE is not in High-Sec - It’s in Blue Null. –Gadget likes donuts ---
**Author:** ![Kynami\_Vaille](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kynami_vaille/32/229160_2.png) [@Kynami\_Vaille](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kynami_Vaille)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/158 "2018-01-18T02:49:09Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > The SAFEST place in EvE is not in High-Sec - It’s in Blue Null. THIS. And even then it isn’t 100% because you never know when you’ll get a random wormhole in your backyard that bypasses the intel channels on the pipes into the sacred krabbing dead end systems before they are already _there_ and looking for targets of opportunity. Or you know just a basic back-stab awox if you piss somebody off. ---
**Author:** ![Tiddle\_Jr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiddle_jr/32/469145_2.png) [@Tiddle\_Jr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiddle_Jr)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/159 "2018-01-18T03:22:33Z")
Those are countless alts vs. unique individuals. Which is probably not that bad with current metagaming. Stagnation.pretty.much. Now have to deal with timers and wait wait wait till we could start grinding Sov. But in the end TiDi will kill everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Lopez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_lopez/32/484486_2.png) [@Mr\_Lopez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Lopez)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 4:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/160 "2018-01-18T04:21:25Z")
\*puts on asbestos pants… How about you cant turn safety off in a npc corp? And cargo scanners make you suspect… cmon no-one uses them but to do piraty things… criminal tools I say. ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/161 "2018-01-18T07:18:49Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > keep giving new players free fitted shi Ironically, I see this as one of the worse things you could do to a new players, because it has the potential of robbing him of the important early sense of achievement. > [@Richard\_Ankalander](#): > > I made a post about it, the reason is that the game is too much heavily tilted towards people who want to gank and pvp The game is a PvP game. There is almost nothing you can do in the game, that hasn’t at least a minor component of going against (the interests of) other players. Even if you just go out and mine Veldspar in your Venture, you are already competing for the ore and on the market. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/162 "2018-01-18T07:19:20Z")
> [@benduin2](#): > > that is your opinion…the only true test would be to make such a server. Such a server would likely be a very boring place. How could one group of players disrupt another group of players from gathering resources? The only thing I can think of is to try and get them first which is not much of a strategy. So gathering resources would be easy, so players could go there and gather resources and make ISK…lots of ISK. Further, there would be minimal destruction so the market for intermediate goods and final goods would likley become saturated. Thus prices would be low. So we’d have a situation where people could acquire as much ISK as they want, but thanks to uncontested resource gathering and production prices would be dropping. And without destruction there’d be little incentive to spend that ISK…we’d have massive deflation which means your ISK would become more valuable simply sitting in your wallet while you did nothing. Decreasing incentives to PvE. Decreasing incentives to build stuff. Decreasing incentives to gather stuff. And no PvP. How can this not turn into a wasteland? Please, point out where I have made an error. Oh yes…you’ll allow wardecs. Back tracking duly noted. > [@benduin2](#): > > you cant argue that I just did. > [@benduin2](#): > > one of the biggest complaints by “carebears” is ganking…lets face it…people who stick to highsec tend to be the pve types. they arent interested in pvp…and you cant make them. Yes, and here is thing about this…those players are imprudent and foolish. Lets look at in a bit more detail. 1. Guy wants to move some stuff. 2. Gets out his charon. 3. Fits it with cargo expanders reducing it’s EHP 4. Sticks 6.789 billion ISK into the cargo hold. 5. Undocks. 6. Flies said charon through a choke point and notorious gank system without even a simple scout. 7. Gets ganked by 19 guys in catalysts. 8. Comes to forums and whines and cries like brat who has been told no more cookies. Now, there is a term for such behavior in the literature on risk analysis: [risk seeking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk-seeking). > In economics and finance, a risk-seeker or risk-lover is a person who has a preference _for_ risk. While most investors are considered risk _averse_, one could view casino-goers as risk-seeking. If offered either $50 or a 50% each chance of either $100 or nothing, a risk-seeking person would prefer the gamble even though the gamble and the sure thing have the same expected value. Emphasis in the original. In short, these players have nobody to blame but themselves. A gank of this nature starts the moment that player puts 6.789 billion ISK in cargo value into his cargo hold. Without that crucial first misstep the possibility of a gank go down dramatically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know “Empty freighters get ganked too.” Yeah. During war decs. In LS and NS. And then there are those who go suspect and get ganked or forget they have some kill rights. And no, a double wrapped package is not an empty freighter. > [@benduin2](#): > > such a server would prove whether it would have a retaining value or not…of course allow wardecs and such but it would cut out ganking. Ganking, as I have shown, is not the result of too little risk for the gankers, but the ganked taking on buttloads of risk…and then sitting there like dimbulbs wondering what happened. If you put enough cargo value into your ship and fit it so it can be burned down by 200 million in destroyers and the gankers can make a 275% profit…you are literally doing it wrong. There is nothing wrong, in a game of choice and consequences, for there being consequences for making really bad choices. > [@benduin2](#): > > i suspect we would know how well it would do within about 6 months…because it would cutout pretty much only ganking…let the flames fly but they will only come from ganker types And all those resources won’t be used for this server. This is, in itself, a risky endeavor that is unlikely to succeed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=9)