# The real reasons player population is declining **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 16, 2018, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517 "2018-01-16T17:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/163 "2018-01-18T07:36:01Z")
> [@CowQueen\_MMXII](#): > > Ironically, I see this as one of the worse things you could do to a new players, because it has the potential of robbing him of the important early sense of achievement. Been suggested before yet the career agents hand out 6 ships and about 7 mill. The difference that mine are fitted shows the people how a ship could look all decked out. I am willing to take the chance and do appreciate the thanks and folks who still remember a ship they got a year and a half ago. I will keep doing what I do m ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/164 "2018-01-18T10:11:25Z")
Actually, it favours the defender. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/165 "2018-01-18T10:12:14Z")
Maybe he’s just wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/166 "2018-01-18T10:13:30Z")
Google “Trammel”. Find your answer and the dire consequences that come with it. ---
**Author:** ![Hiasa\_Kite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/hiasa_kite/32/11603_2.png) [@Hiasa\_Kite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Hiasa_Kite)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/167 "2018-01-18T10:14:40Z")
This isn’t an argument of opinions. It’s an argument between those who have learned the game and those who haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/matthias_ancaladron/32/128799_2.png) [@Matthias\_Ancaladron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Matthias_Ancaladron)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/168 "2018-01-18T10:30:36Z")
The problem is the devs. Theyre taking the game in the wrong direction with no light at the end of an increasingly dark tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/169 "2018-01-18T10:33:25Z")
> [@CowQueen\_MMXII](#): > > Ironically, I see this as one of the worse things you could do to a new players, because it has the potential of robbing him of the important early sense of achievement. I’m presuming you’re coming from an angle of never ever having helped a new bro out? > [@Geostrike](#): > > Listen carebear. Life is not fair, get over it. > > I am the proud owner of a multi-million $$ Marketing corporation and I started with nothing. > [@Geostrike](#): > > If you want free handouts all your life you might as well just go cry to your mommy about it. Soo, 2 of you that have an “I’m alright jack…F U” attitude. I’m sure that anyone thinking of joining the game and are reading these threads for a little research are finding them really encouraging… ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/170 "2018-01-18T10:50:10Z")
> [@Galaxy\_Pig](#): > > Dude, learn to use commas. Jesus Christ… Feel free to tell me which of the commata are set incorrectly. Always happy to learn. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/171 "2018-01-18T10:58:23Z")
> [@Geostrike](#): > > I am the proud owner of a multi-million $$ Marketing corporation and I started with nothing. Well you probably started with someone, i.e. your momma, feeding you, giving you shelter and sending you to school. That’s not nothing. Also Marketing… no matter how much money you make with that, your existence is entirely useless. You’re a leech on the ass of society and I don’t see you fit to give anyone proper advise about how to approach this game or live their life. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/172 "2018-01-18T11:38:24Z")
Maybe he also got a small loan of one million dollars from his “dad” to start his business. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![CowQueen\_MMXII](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cowqueen_mmxii/32/446332_2.png) [@CowQueen\_MMXII](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CowQueen_MMXII)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/173 "2018-01-18T11:53:09Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > I’m presuming you’re coming from an angle of never ever having helped a new bro out? Oh, I actually helped quite a lot of new players, mostly with things like knowledge or advice, not by potentially devaluating their self earned progress of the first few days. I also gifted Isk and assets on several occasions to people, just not to new players who could’t make a comparable amount in the foreseeable future on their own. How much someone achieves or feels he progresses in the game, is most certainly one of the decisive factors that determine if he will stay or leave again. Showing him options und telling him how to improve on what he thinks he likes and wants to do and letting him do and earn everything on his own, will definitely result in a much bigger sense of achievement, progress and ultimately success. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/174 "2018-01-18T11:54:44Z")
0 in a tanked freighter ganks happen all the time, totally has to do with with how much they carry…kill mails are cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/175 "2018-01-18T11:56:51Z")
> [@CowQueen\_MMXII](#): > > Oh, I actually helped quite a lot of new players, mostly with things like knowledge or advice, not by potentially devaluating their self earned progress of the first few days. I also gifted Isk and assets on several occasions to people, just not to new players who could’t make a comparable amount in the foreseeable future on their own. > > How much someone achieves or feels he progresses in the game, is most certainly one of the decisive factors that determine if he will stay or leave again. Showing him options und telling him how to improve on what he thinks he likes and wants to do and letting him do and earn everything on his own, will definitely result in a much bigger sense of achievement, progress and ultimately success. That’s not even worth a ■■■■■■■ reply, beyond this… ---
**Author:** ![Amame\_Kuro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amame_kuro/32/47495_2.png) [@Amame\_Kuro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amame_Kuro)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/176 "2018-01-18T12:33:13Z")
I think that the reason why people are abandoning EVE is because CCP is abandoning EVE. Every game has it’s time and without any fixes to problems and updates to make the game feel new, people will become fatigued. Adding micro-transactions also doesn’t help when your game is focused on a cynical player base. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/177 "2018-01-18T13:16:24Z")
> [@Agondray](#): > > 0 in a tanked freighter ganks happen all the time, totally has to do with with how much they carry…kill mails are cancer. Just quickly, as this has possibly been discussed ad nauseam: There are more reasons for ganks, than dank loot and juicy killmails. Let’s take a look at empty freighters being ganked and let’s focus on the fact that this is a lose-lose. Is it a lose-lose? For the victim it means the loss of the ship, which could have cost them anywhere between 1 and 11 Billion in case of a JF. Now, they get some back due to insurance. But nevertheless, they lose. They lose money and they lose operational time. They might also lose their nerves. Clearly a loss. How about the attacker? They lose all their ganking ships, and only might get some back by looting the modules or salvaging, if they care. They lose time as well, which they could have used in different other ways to make profit, instead of loss, right? Looks like a loss too. Now, creating a lose-lose is a pretty standard move in the economic world. Companies lower the prices at their own losses in order to get rid of competition, in some cases drive other companies or even entire states into bankrupcy. In order to profit from a lose-lose you need to have the economical advantage, i.e. fatter pockets. When Goons/Code are ganking empty Freighters in Highsec, they deliberately create a situation in which both sides lose, because it hits the victim much harder. The loss of a few JF/Freighters could mean the end of operations for some. And if it were just that, Goons would invest some pocket money to drive others into bankrupcy. But I assume it doesn’t stop there. In order to produce Freighters, you need a lot of minerals. Who has a lot of Minerals? Exactly. The same goes for Talosi. So what they are doing is this: rather than selling X minerals to an oversaturated market, they turn X minerals into a loss of Y ISK for the victim and they also create new demand. In short: ganking is also a means to hold economically weaker entitities down, while also positively influencing the price for your own sourced minerals. If there is some nice cargo in the Freighter: all the better. The soldiers will be happy to get some. For the strategists behind it, it doesn’t really matter. One could shoot the wreck for all they care. I mean, that’s what I assume, because that would be what I would decide, if I were in the place to do that. That being said, there are surely personal motives behind ganking empty Freighters, such as killmails or general lust for creating dismay, but the whole thing wouldn’t happen on that scale, if it was only that. The strange thing is that other large powerhouses who source Trillions in Minerals aren’t doing the same. ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/178 "2018-01-18T13:30:14Z")
#6 EVE is game of alts, multiboxing and bots. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anne_dieu-le-veut/32/148292_2.png) [@Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anne_Dieu-le-veut)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/179 "2018-01-18T13:50:31Z")
> [@benduin2](#): > > that is your opinion…the only true test would be to make such a server. you cant argue that… > > one of the biggest complaints by “carebears” is ganking…lets face it…people who stick to highsec tend to be the pve types. they arent interested in pvp…and you cant make them. such a server would prove whether it would have a retaining value or not…of course allow wardecs and such but it would cut out ganking. i suspect we would know how well it would do within about 6 months…because it would cutout pretty much only ganking…let the flames fly but they will only come from ganker types _cough_ SiSi _cough_ Why do people join a PvP game and complain about PvP? ---
**Author:** ![walker\_Hanomaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/walker_hanomaa/32/291375_2.png) [@walker\_Hanomaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/walker_Hanomaa)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/180 "2018-01-18T14:01:39Z")
not sure why people dont expect this type of stuff in a sandbox game :shrug: People are gonna do whatever they want as long as its with in the rules and TOS of CCP face the facts folks ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/181 "2018-01-18T14:25:49Z")
> [@Anne\_Dieu-le-veut](#): > > Why do people join a PvP game and complain about PvP? If you read the New Player Handbook the first mention of this being a pvp game is on page 15 where it mentions in one sentence that this is a pvp game at its core. It’s then 20 odd pages about becoming a Miner, Explorer, Industrialist etc before its mentioned again. Up until not long ago the three starter packs you could buy from CCp were Industrialist, Exploration and Mining…no sign of a pvp ship. So for what is allegedly a pvp centric game it certainly doesn’t seem CCP push it that way to future subscribers. In fact, quite the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517/182 "2018-01-18T14:31:46Z")
Page 6 actually (The first page that is something other than art and contents; "1 WHAT IS EVE ONLINE? 1.1 WHO DO I PLAY AS? …market your fighting skills as a mercenary, roam the spacelanes as a pirate, conduct espionage and infiltration" With the possible exception of the first one, those are PVP roles you cannot do without other players. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-real-reasons-player-population-is-declining/51517.md?page=10)