# The Red Line Long Since Crossed **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 13, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534 "2022-03-13T16:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/22 "2022-03-13T18:56:10Z")
What difference does selling pre-fitted ships make when you can sell the plex and skills then fit it in game? The issue for some would be it being paywalled off out of reach from ingame trainability and purchasability. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/23 "2022-03-13T18:58:54Z")
To repeat what others have said, selling Plex in game for the ISK to buy the ship, fits, and SIs benefits the game economy. Just buying it outright for RL money doesn’t. It’s analogous to you getting a job and earning a paycheck vs the government just mailing you a check for nothing. The work you do for your paycheck benefits the whole economy. Just being given money has a much lesser effect and many negative side effects. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/24 "2022-03-13T18:59:54Z")
Skill books are moving out of the player market by the looks of it, people just click the big blue “buy and inject” button nowdays unless there’s a big price difference/saving. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/25 "2022-03-13T19:02:06Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > Plex and even booster/training packs is OK. Everybody has their red line and these are way past mine. I could look through the old forum and dig up memes from before memes were a thing laughing at other MMOs for selling EXP. And now you people argue to keep it. Times have certainly changed. And like I said before, a year from now buying ships for cash will be so accepted that if CCP pulled it, Jita would burn. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/26 "2022-03-13T19:03:19Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > Everybody has their red line and these are way past mine. If they’re past your red line, and you’re still here, what was the red line for? ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/27 "2022-03-13T19:03:25Z")
I don’t know the history of skill books. I suspect (most) they’ve always been a combination of NPC buy&inject as well as player sales. In that case I think there is a good argument to make for the health of the game to make skills NOC buy&inject as oppose to having to run all over the galaxy looking for it. Plus, it’s an isk “sink” which also adds to the health of the economy. (look up videos on “faucets and sinks” in an MMORPG economy, very good information!) ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/28 "2022-03-13T19:05:01Z")
I might agree with you were it not for the fact that (at this present time at least) you can only use a booster/training pack **once** per login ID. IOW, you can’t keep buying boosters and training packs over and over and over again. It’s a 1-time allowed purchase. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/29 "2022-03-13T19:06:35Z")
I made enough selling characters back in the day that I can ignore all the ■■■■ going on and just keep doing the things I like. Though I’ll not stop voicing my opinion here. Even if I’m shouting into the dark compared to what this forum once was. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/30 "2022-03-13T19:07:39Z")
The whole point of MMO’s is they evolve, that means adapting to the market and economy of the real world and player expectations. You cannot expect gaming of today to be the same as 10 or 20 years ago, same as you cannot expect gaming in 10 or 20 years time to be the same as today. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/31 "2022-03-13T19:09:42Z")
> [@Jin\_Endares](#): > > you can only use a booster/training pack **once** per login ID. You can only use the ship pack once per login ID, but that’s not stopping you and everyone else having a meltdown over it. This is your red line and you’ll somehow justify all the stuff that came before that really ain’t all that different than this. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/32 "2022-03-13T19:11:35Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > The whole point of MMO’s is they evolve, that means adapting to the market and economy of the real world and player expectations. Like selling ship packs? ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/33 "2022-03-13T19:12:19Z")
> [@Foggy\_Bernstein](#): > > Like selling ship packs? Some people want to jump straight into action. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/34 "2022-03-13T19:13:48Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > The whole point of MMO’s is they evolve, that means adapting to the market and economy of the real world and player expectations. You cannot expect gaming of today to be the same as 10 or 20 years ago, same as you cannot expect gaming in 10 or 20 years time to be the same as today. I have no illusions that nay game company is just that - a company for-profit (regardless of their origin concept). Good Developers don’t work for free, etc. But is that kind of “evolution” really want the long term player wants? (Not to mention being able to ultimately buy any ship with fits and skills wreaks of elitism - those who can afford dominate, those who can’t are SOL). ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/35 "2022-03-13T19:14:23Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > Some people want to jump straight into action. And will probably get blown up right away… ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/36 "2022-03-13T19:16:13Z")
Not everybody can have everything they want all the time. There will always be have vs have nots, even in gaming. Gaming is not an “essential” for living. ---
**Author:** ![Codename\_Razorback](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/codename_razorback/32/486427_2.png) [@Codename\_Razorback](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Codename_Razorback)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/37 "2022-03-13T19:16:21Z")
The in-game “economy” lost its autonomy when CCP lost its economist. I think they have a select group of third graders pulling the strings now. CCP controls the market and it’s not subtle. * * * \*CCP owns the game and can do as they please. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy\_Bernstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/foggy_bernstein/32/407887_2.png) [@Foggy\_Bernstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Foggy_Bernstein)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/38 "2022-03-13T19:17:04Z")
> [@Codename\_Razorback](#): > > I think they have a select group of third graders pulling the strings now. AKA null alliances. ---
**Author:** ![Kenrailae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kenrailae/32/494205_2.png) [@Kenrailae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kenrailae)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/39 "2022-03-13T19:18:41Z")
If CCP really wanted to help new players, they could start them with more SP. Not too much because then it becomes the same problem as this prospector pack represents, but enough they can actually start doing stuff. If CCP really wanted to make money, holy cow they could rake in the cash with ship and station cosmetics and skins. I can only conclude with this pack their goal is to neither help new players nor make money, as this will almost certainly screw over new players who will leave the game 15 minutes in when their 25 dollar retriever(cause that’s how they’ll see it) gets ganked. Their goal is to prey on potential new customers. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/40 "2022-03-13T19:19:55Z")
Perhaps more SP rewards for activities in the game like other MMO’s do. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_Endares](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_endares/32/413291_2.png) [@Jin\_Endares](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_Endares)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534/41 "2022-03-13T19:22:00Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > Not everybody can have everything they want all the time. There will always be have vs have nots, even in gaming. Gaming is not an “essential” for living. I said before I well recognize it’s a for-profit company. NTL most business want to attract the widest customer base they can **AND** want to _retain_ those customers for years to come. It is usually the sign of a failing enterprise to try to squeeze as much income out of a shrinking customer base as they can (before they shut the doors and turn off the lights). [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-line-long-since-crossed/353534.md?page=3)