# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 101
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2045 "2022-11-27T18:20:19Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > So when Madoff scammed people was the fiat monetary system abused? No, it’s the finance system that was abused and had to be more regulated afterwards. However, BTC “money” is intertwined with BTC “investment” so you can’t dissociate the two. When there is a fatal flaw in one, it also means there is a fatal flaw in the other. This is, by design. The only way to avoid that would be, as I wrote but you buried your head in the sand again, if BTC was a substitute for fiat. In that case it would not be an investment of fiat. The fiat system was abused when banks used it to print more money than they were supposed to. Or when they kept investing in speculation rather than production. That’s when the monetary system is regulated. In the case of BTC it’s “whatever happens we don’t care”. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2046 "2022-11-27T18:24:31Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > No, it’s the finance system that was abused and had to be more regulated afterwards. So once a system is abused it becomes a ponzi? > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > if BTC was a substitute for fiat. Again, you are the only one in this thread pushing this point, nobody else is. But I guess you have to try your best to make it look like I’m saying that because you have a silly and very poorly researched narrative where you have ignored too much for people to even take you seriously. You’re trying to talk extensively on BTC and you haven’t even read the white paper, you’d be extremely bad at journalism. Extensive talking can only be backed by extensive research follow the process and never try to skip steps. [https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/](https://nakamotoinstitute.org/bitcoin/) The New Scientist says this in an article about BTC: What is the purpose of bitcoin? Bitcoin was created as **a way for people to send money over the internet**. The digital currency was intended to provide an **alternative payment system** that would operate free of central control but otherwise be used just like traditional currencies. [What is bitcoin and how does it work? | New Scientist](https://www.newscientist.com/definition/bitcoin/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20purpose%20of,used%20just%20like%20traditional%20currencies). Hmmm, an alternative payment system huh. Google Dictionary meaning of Alternative: 1. (of one or more things) available as another possibility or choice. 2. relating to activities that depart from or challenge traditional norms. So please can you stop this silly talk “BTC was meant to replace fiat” once you do we can continue with our convo, If people want a high level of privacy when purchasing from a retailer, BTC (if supported by retailer) might be an option they can use to do a transaction without 3rd party approval. People would use a cardboard box to scam people if they could, Scammers will use whatever is available to steal and trick money out of people. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2047 "2022-11-28T10:32:35Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Bitcoin isn’t actually a revolution, it’s not attacking the current system. It simply offers everyone a peaceful exit out of the current system governed by rulers into a new system governed by clear unchangeable rules, that are the same for everyone and is completely independent. To the contrary, the Bitcoin revolution succeeded. China moves in to take over El Salvador from the “Imperialistic West”. Freedom for the people at last! > **[China and El Salvador to begin free trade talks](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-el-salvador-begin-free-trade-talks-2022-11-09/)** > > China and El Salvador will begin free trade talks, the Chinese ambassador to the country and Salvadoran President Nayib Bukele said during an event in El Salvador on Wednesday. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2048 "2022-11-28T10:35:53Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > operate free of central control Imagine the infantile dream of any power on earth allowing this. I guess you also think “free trade agreements” doesn’t limit the actual trade that was done ‘peer to peer’. Ah, so gullible. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2049 "2022-11-28T12:12:53Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Imagine the infantile dream of any power on earth allowing this. > I guess you also think “free trade agreements” doesn’t limit the actual trade that was done ‘peer to peer’. > Ah, so gullible. Many people are fine with the current level of privacy with regard to transactions and will therefore not have a need for BTC. From my perspective it is yourself and millions of others who are gullible, too many listened to manipulators when they said “BTC is an investment” and you can get rich from holding and selling it. Why are people trying to get rich from other peoples desire for privacy? Based on the actual function of BTC it’s really more of a service which should be used in the way I use it, I’m only looking for privacy when I do some of my transactions, I just buy the amount of BTC I need for the transaction and then complete the transaction, The crypto exchange would have made a few pounds when I buy BTC, the BTC network earns money for completing my transaction, and then the exchange makes money again when the retailer sells the BTC back to them. I have no idea why people have such a massive problem with the proper way to use BTC, and I know that exchanges want people to buy large amounts of BTC so they can profit from people like me who want privacy in transactions. I’m sorry but it seems you’ve been misled, and you seem stuck on “BTC is only an investment for making profit” you are 100% wrong according to the creator of BTC. I have a right to privacy, and people like satoshi made it happen for me with his genius invention. You must understand people like me are humble, I’m not looking to become a millionaire from a service designed to keep details private. For the first time in my life I purchased a car a couple of years ago which has gone up in price since I purchased it, it’s now worth about £1,600 more than when I purchased. The car is a hybrid. If we analyse further we can understand that the battery in my hybrid is charged from me accelerating and braking, the car seems to generate power on it’s own which society will find extremely useful in these difficult times, there is a saving to be made if one owns a hybrid so anyone owning a hybrid will make sure the price is a current one before selling. I have made a huge saving with this car which is where the higher value comes from. If we look at BTC, the amount that people desire it may change quickly if privacy laws changed for example where retailers/banks want even more info about you. The desire for privacy will become stronger and if BTC happens to provide that privacy then many may start using it. Anyone using BTC for ANY other purpose other than remaining private during a transaction may run into serious problems. My perspective has actually changed somewhat during this thread, I am no longer bothered if BTC is worth £500 each or £100,000 each. at either value I can still use it for private transactions with no problems. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2050 "2022-11-28T12:54:18Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Anyone using BTC for ANY other purpose other than remaining private during a transaction may run into serious problems. And that purpose fails as people can actually find who you are by sniffing your network. So if someone wants to know who made that transaction, they actually can. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2051 "2022-11-28T12:56:28Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > And that purpose fails as people can actually find who you are by sniffing your network. Yes, but even more work is required to achieve this. It certainly isn’t as easy as it would be using the legacy payment system. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2052 "2022-11-28T12:58:05Z")
Actually, it is easier. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2053 "2022-11-28T12:58:29Z")
How so? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2054 "2022-11-28T12:59:48Z")
easier : can be done more easily. For example, if the infrastructure is already in place to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2055 "2022-11-28T13:02:22Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I have a right to privacy, “a need”. But hey to each their own. > [@Aaron](#): > > why people have such a massive problem with the proper way to use BTC “proper” 😃 There is no proper ways as it is not regulated. > [@Aaron](#): > > you seem stuck on “BTC is only an investment for making profit” you are 100% wrong according to the creator of BTC. I’m not stuck on it being an investment. Karak is. I am just saying it is NOT a good/smart/… investment. It’s good to launder money with though. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > It’s a high risk investment. And this funny guy… 😉 > [@Aaron](#): > > Direct BTC investment is still a very good thing as it seems to hold up well in a recession, a pandemic and a war, I really like the way it seems to meld with the worldwide economy and it’s value represents the state of the current world. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2056 "2022-11-28T13:04:25Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > “a need”. But hey to each their own. No, I actually have a right to privacy, anyone infringing upon these rights may be committing a criminal offence where they are open to legal action. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2057 "2022-11-28T13:04:27Z")
That last one aged so well… At the same time claiming it was an investment, and at the same time claiming it’s not impacted by other investments… ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2058 "2022-11-28T13:05:56Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > “proper” 😃 There is no proper ways as it is not regulated. You’re free to believe that, but it’s purpose is supporting private transactions where a 3rd party isn’t needed. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2059 "2022-11-28T13:06:05Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I actually have a right to privacy, anyone infringing upon these rights may be committing a criminal offence where they are open to legal action. The state is the one doing it. And you can’t prove it. Good luck winning a trial against your state without any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2060 "2022-11-28T13:07:23Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I actually have a right to privacy Not the way you think. But i’m sure SBF was thinking exactly the same while believing he could hold the FTX financial situation private… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2061 "2022-11-28T13:07:47Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > The state is the one doing it. Ah, so you acknowledge that there is an issue with regards to privacy. Perhaps this is why Satoshi created BTC to try and do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2062 "2022-11-28T13:11:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Ah, so you acknowledge that there is an issue with regards to privacy. Perhaps this is why Satoshi created BTC to try and do something about it. Imagine BTC (blockchain) solving Facebook or TikTok. To the contrary my dear, it would log each and every transaction distributed in a way no one would ever be able to delete any of that information… 😃 Every transaction on BTC is public domain. LOL. Literally. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2063 "2022-11-28T13:12:43Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Not the way you think. But i’m sure SBF was thinking exactly the same while believing he could hold the FTX financial situation private… 😃 If one is dealing/holding public assets then they do have a responsibility to be transparent, (many exchanges are now being asked to prove they can afford to meet withdrawal obligations), if this doesn’t happen or is refused then we may see many withdraw money from exchanges. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2064 "2022-11-28T13:14:11Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > If one is dealing/holding public assets BTC is public asset. Every transaction is logged, good luck in your fight for privacy?! Man, the stuff Crypto addicts say… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=100) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=102)