# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2085 "2022-11-28T18:42:46Z")
Just send them one satoshi at a time! How can they charge a fee for that? Ha! ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2086 "2022-11-28T19:56:48Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > So if Person A sends 1 BTC to Person B… who gets the transaction fee? The ‘middleman’ that in your lies does not exist, Person C, who mines… like you… therefor 3rd party is involved in the transaction and even gets a fee. That is correct, but that miner can be anyone. It doesn’t require a **trusted** third party. Also the involvement of the miner is only to put transactions in a historical order, otherwise they don’t have anything to do with the parties transacting. > [@Xeux](#): > > Just send them one satoshi at a time! How can they charge a fee for that? Ha! On Lightning you can indeed do that, because there fees can me milli Satoshies and there is no miner involved, just nodes along the route who provide liquidity and may charge a fee for that. If you have a direct channel you can transact back and forth as much and as little as you want all day for free. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2087 "2022-11-28T21:25:00Z")
What happens to my single Satoshi on the base layer? Isn’t the base layer still being paid for using the Bitcoin lottery system (aka “mining”)? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2088 "2022-11-28T22:05:26Z")
So it’s ok for the state to infringe upon our privacy? you said it yourself “The state are the ones doing it” it’s difficult to change something you typed in the past. You acknowledge there is somewhat of a privacy issue, but then you are surprised when someone creates something to help with privacy. Maybe you need to think your argument “it’s a scam” through first before typing on a public forum about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2089 "2022-11-28T22:08:34Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Every day the definition of what BTC is changes with you… I guess we are all still learning, BTC isn’t an old system/currency it’s only 12 or so years old. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2090 "2022-11-28T22:13:00Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > What happens to my single Satoshi on the base layer? It is transacted as a whole Satoshi. The fee is probably stuck in lightning limbo when the channel closes. But the price of 1 satoshi is “ **0.00** 01620533” so it’s zero dot zero zero dollar worth. You can’t even fight that in court as you need a minimum claim of $0.01 in small claims court. It is however interesting if someone would make trillions of those transactions opening and closing after every transaction. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2091 "2022-11-28T22:15:24Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > It is however interesting if someone would make trillions of those transactions opening and closing after every transaction. The BTC network fees would be worth more than one satoshi. seems pointless. A trillion x £0.09 is a vast amount of money. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2092 "2022-11-28T22:16:36Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > So it’s ok for the state to infringe upon our privacy? Where you live, it means **the protection of personal or private information from misuse or unauthorized disclosure**. So, did your government (1) misuse the information they gather about you? lol no. (2) Did the government disclose the information they gather about you? lol no. All is fine, lol. You should become a stand up comedian, would make you more than your mining adventures. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2093 "2022-11-28T22:17:45Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > The BTC network fees would be worth more than one satoshi. seems pointless. A trillion x £0.09 is a vast amount of money. Hold on, how did you know it was the same guy? See, you post some of the most hilarious contradicting stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2094 "2022-11-28T22:18:48Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > It is however interesting if someone would make trillions of those transactions opening and closing after every transaction. “Someone” normally refers to a person. “lots of people” refers to many people. “Someone stole my car” “Someone sent me £100” ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2095 "2022-11-28T22:19:52Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > “Someone” normally refers to a person. “lots of people” refers to many people. But someone cannot be identified. SOMEONE knows he’s the same person. The nodes however just see transactions. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2096 "2022-11-28T22:20:42Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > “Someone stole my car” > “Someone sent me £100” If you claim that the following is true. Why did the person that stole your car sent you £100 ? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2097 "2022-11-28T22:21:35Z")
As the thread continues your actual argument becomes harder and harder to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2098 "2022-11-28T22:25:58Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > your actual argument Just reread. Maybe ask others for help reading? It’s just English. Someone is a person. He can have as many ‘accounts as he likes’, he can transact 1 SAT as much as he likes from different accounts. How is he identified? You claim he is. By non technical terms. I understand you are again trying to circle around the subject of which you know nothing. At least your answers are funny as hell. At least your medicines work well. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2099 "2022-11-28T22:26:48Z")
None of this makes BTC a scam or Ponzi, at some point you will have to accept this as fact simply because it is. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > At least your medicines work well. Verbal abuse won’t suddenly validate your poorly researched claim. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2100 "2022-11-28T22:36:06Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/e/6feb34343aef76acfea0e3830dd944f0689838e1.jpeg "Investor scammed by FTX says Sam Bankman-Fried 'should already be in jail for this'") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do5o9seHPF4) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWxC3q3WvTI) ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2101 "2022-11-28T23:34:03Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Verbal abuse won’t suddenly validate your poorly researched claim. Neither does substance abuse help you form coherent claims of your opinions which you interpret as facts. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2102 "2022-11-28T23:35:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > None of this makes BTC a scam or Ponzi, at some point you will have to accept this as fact simply because it is. How does the UK define a scam? Something that looks like an illegal plan for making money, especially one that involves tricking people. So, as websites clearly state and you said numerous times, Satoshi would have been arrested and convicted if he didn’t stay anonymous. Then he made a system to create a currency to pay anonymously (or pseudonimously). All of crypto ‘except BTC’ is a scam. A few posts later you try to promote to me and others making a crypto currency. That does not show you as a trustworthy person. All exchanges (most hold BTC) are scams. I could quote Karak as I’m not sure if it was you that said it too. Not going to search in the posts. Jordan Belfort on BTC "I just said it’s a scam because it just seemed like that because in all the ear markings of that,” and he stands by it ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSBDnc-HY48](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSBDnc-HY48)). 5% of all BTC is owned by Satoshi who can’t really go and sell it all. 20% is lost forever. China said “No! curtail financial crime and prevent economic instability”. Russia said “NO, for local goods and services! But YES, only if it used in cross-border payments.” So it looks bad, but i’m not prosecutor. I just think it’s a very bad system that favours organised crime, dictators and some shady rich people. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2103 "2022-11-28T23:44:02Z")
The biggest criminals, scammers, etc are always the gubmint. The real legacy of Bitcoin will be that it gave big governments the idea of developing their own cryptocurrencies so that they could increase their control of people by a notch. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2104 "2022-11-29T00:08:59Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > So it looks bad, but i’m not prosecutor. I just think it’s a very bad system that favours organised crime, dictators and some shady rich people. BTC suits me well as I use it to stay private in a transaction, I’m just your average non-criminal guy, I don’t do organised crime, I’m not rich and I’m not a dictator. So BTC is for anyone who wants privacy during a transaction and it is factual that it was designed for this exact purpose where the facts can be proven beyond reasonable doubt. Yes, I get that it can open up people to scams if they are unsure how BTC works, but the due diligence is an investors best friend in this case. > **[Due diligence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence)** > > Due diligence is the investigation or exercise of care that a reasonable business or person is normally expected to take before entering into an agreement or contract with another party or an act with a certain standard of care. > Due diligence can be a legal obligation, but the term more commonly applies to voluntary investigations. It may also offer a defence against legal action. A common example of due diligence is the process through which a potential acquirer evaluates a target company or ... It seems many veteran long running business people also forgot to do their Due Diligence. I think you listen to greedy people too easily, somebody who is interested in holding other peoples BTC are only out to make profit for themselves, they do not set the standard on anything and shouldn’t be listened to. Even youtubers who were paid to promote FTX are trying to apologise sincerely to all their followers for being stupidly sucked into the scam FTX created. So, now we understand that BTC is factually a payment system that helps with privacy do we think its something someone can invest their life savings in? I would have thought investing in Houses for rent would be better if you are not a crypto pro who knows everything about crypto. At least with houses there is a very high chance of getting tenants to rent it due to many losing their homes in the economic downturn. Somewhere to live will always be a much sought after asset. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=102) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=104)