# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 108
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2185 "2022-12-01T23:55:29Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I think it’s beautiful So is “quantum healing”. When it’s only “beautiful” , it’s a scam. It appeals to your taste, not to the logic. It’s not private. It’s not secure. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2186 "2022-12-02T01:01:29Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > When it’s only “beautiful” , it’s a scam. It appeals to your taste, not to the logic. The beauty is in the logic and the rules the volumes it can support. a computer system with an important purpose of verifying transactions. only a programmer can see the beauty of when a system works exactly as it was programmed to. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2187 "2022-12-02T01:17:51Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/7/6/976e7b56fcea9825037646c5c3404b6d43a8ce8a.jpeg ""Bitcoin will HIT THIS PRICE and I can PROVE IT!" | Binance CEO Interview") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kqDsvpIm6I) CZ seems to have a realistic view, he says mass adoption won’t be for another 10 to 20 years, the generation being born now will see BTC as normal it wont be anything new to them. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 5:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2188 "2022-12-02T05:29:58Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > the generation being born now There’s a sucker born every minute. They will be left with energy shortages and less stuff they can consume. But they will sill be gambling, and they will fall for scams like always. Maybe there will be no crypto tho, so it will be more about other scams. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2189 "2022-12-02T11:25:35Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Maybe there will be no crypto tho, so it will be more about other scams. Well, there is a need to make money transfer cheaper. There is just wayyy too much focus on what profit could be made from investing in this. I was really thinking about functionality, my point was the generation being born now will be used to BTC so they will see nothing abnormal with fiat being transferred to BTC then sent to it’s destination and then transferred back to fiat. My 2 year old niece can work a smartphone better than I can lol Also, I don’t think anymore people will be tricked into putting their life savings into buying and holding BTC, current events are actually teaching us a lesson and forcing us to understand what’s going on. Anyone buying BTC now is very clear on what it is and that profit can only be made when billions of genuine BTC users adopt it for retail and transfer purposes and not profit. Investing in BTC now and expecting profit is like buying a grocery store where there are only 10 customers per year. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2190 "2022-12-02T20:46:03Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > a computer system with an important purpose of verifying transactions. It’s not important. It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency. Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2191 "2022-12-02T21:21:53Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not important. If it can actually save money then it’s important. It does seem like a logical way for an exchange to transfer money to another country on behalf of a paying customer the exchange is already based in both countries. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It just checks its input consistency Yes, and a consistency check verifies that a transaction is valid. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. Any BTC data will always will always use this method to communicate with another node. Googled; “Bitcoin uses a simple broadcast network to propagate transactions and blocks. **All communications are done over TCP**. Bitcoin is fully able to use ports other than 8333 via the -port parameter.” All TCP does is break down a message so it can be transferred, all computers use this protocol to send/receive so it can’t be compared to BTC as it is essential to the BTC system operating normally, It’s obviously part of the network layer of ANY software/system that needs to communicate to another remote node. > **[OSI Model: The 7 Layers of Network Architecture](https://www.bmc.com/blogs/osi-model-7-layers/)** > > The OSI Model is a 7-layer framework for network architecture that doesn't have to be complicated. We break it all down for you here. There’s a diagram if you have a look on that page, BTC will always be on the “Application” Layer and will be designed to always use the Transport Layer just like any other application in the world. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2192 "2022-12-02T21:35:30Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Yes, and a consistency check verifies that a transaction is valid. No, it verifies that it is a transaction. Which ANY computer can do > [@Aaron](#): > > Any BTC data will always will always use this method to communicate with another node. Again, do you even read what I wrote ? Your answer is again missing the point. > [@Aaron](#): > > all computers use this protocol to send/receive so it can’t be compared to BTC WTF ? I’m not saying it is compared to. Read again. Do you have mental issues ? Pretending I compare things while I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2193 "2022-12-02T21:44:51Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Do you have mental issues ? Pretending I compare things while I don’t. Maybe you should stop typing in a silly cryptic way. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not important. > It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency In a BTC system, nodes need to verify with each other that a transaction is valid. So, if BTC is sent to me I sometimes have to wait for a certain amount of confirmations before I can change the BTC to fiat. It’s important because someone has paid a small amount of money to do this. What would be the BTC systems purpose then if it wasn’t to verify transactions? Now you’re arguing with me because I want to visualise the beautiful inner workings of a networked computer system. chill out man. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2194 "2022-12-02T22:06:33Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Maybe you should stop typing in a silly cryptic way. Maybe you should stop pretending having knowledge when you clearly have none. > [@Aaron](#): > > In a BTC system, nodes need to verify with each other that a transaction is valid. Just like in any TCP-based application a computer verifies that the inputs are valid. There is nothing specific to BTC here. Torrent protocol already does that. > [@Aaron](#): > > What would be the BTC systems purpose then if it wasn’t to verify transactions? You already know. > [@Aaron](#): > > Now you’re arguing with me because I want to visualise the beautiful inner workings of a networked computer system. No. I argue because your arguments are AGAIN completely nonsensical - and you pretend I wrote things I did not, again without even going back on your words when asked for quotes. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2195 "2022-12-02T22:38:24Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > No. I argue because your arguments are AGAIN completely nonsensical - and you pretend I wrote things I did not, again without even going back on your words when asked for quotes. And this is where you are deluded, there was no argument. just admiration of a beautiful system. What’s that old saying? Misery needs company was it? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2196 "2022-12-02T22:52:35Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > And this is where you are deluded, there was no argument. just admiration of a beautiful system. Yet you pretend it has something specific, while it does not. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2197 "2022-12-02T23:42:16Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not important. > It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency. Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. This is hilarious. If this is the level of understanding you have about how any of this works I really wonder what makes you think you should give your opinion about Bitcoin. 🤣 Maybe you really should look into what a Bitcoin node actually does before you try to lecture people on it. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2198 "2022-12-02T23:50:29Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Yet you pretend it has something specific, while it does not. You know it’s okay to ask questions if you don’t know what all the fuss is about. Why can’t you just write out what you are misunderstanding and then people who might know try to explain it to you? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2199 "2022-12-03T03:54:31Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/a/8/8a8aab4471c7c3d0b408a579bcd073d1dc9aa4a1.jpeg "Is Crypto.com Collapse NEXT after COLLAPSE of FTX?!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2onaeWPlUY) ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2200 "2022-12-03T13:00:28Z")
First… > [@Aaron](#): > > Yes, Good luck trying to link a transaction to a person or home address. Later… > [@Aaron](#): > > Some interesting stats on here from 2021. > > It seems there were 400,000 BTC users in 2021 and 53 million traders and 106 million people owned BTC. I don’t think vast amounts of value can be generated from such a small amount of genuine users, so it makes me wonder what purpose those 53 million traders are serving? ROFL… Good luck with those stats… No one can define ownership yet they can deduct if an account number is a distinct user? Hahaha… And then… > [@Aaron](#): > > Why can’t you just write out what you are misunderstanding and then people who might know try to explain it to you? The pattern is that to convince people here you will simply counter with the opposite whether or not it’s true. Then when cornered, apparently a lot of different posts arrive to bury the previous nonsense. But you are stuck in a circle. I can’t predict the future of the Satoshi Scheme but I can tell you you are stuck here forever. Providing ample entertainment to the people coming here to laugh at people pretending to promote and then claim not to promote BTC just a few posts away. It’s funny… ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2201 "2022-12-03T13:06:11Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > The pattern is that to convince people here you will simply counter with the opposite whether or not it’s true. This is the reason I believe he has mental issues. That, or he is a plain liar. Also the FACT that he can’t accept that BTC is(was) a ponzi. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2202 "2022-12-03T14:08:05Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > I believe he has mental issues Pretty rich coming from you. A person who thinks they have to lecture other people about a topic where you don’t even understand the basics. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Also the FACT that he can’t accept that BTC is(was) a ponzi. It clearly isn’t, and just repeating it will not suddenly change reality. And by the way how are you even able to judge that, you don’t even know on an ELI5 level how any of this works. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2203 "2022-12-03T14:47:32Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > This is the reason I believe he has mental issues. > That, or he is a plain liar. You’re not even in a position to clearly and concisely type out where your issue is, all you say is “it’s a scam” and give absolute zero reasoning. I have fully agreed people are using BTC as a type of ponzi, I’m not here trying to convince people of anything, in fact a few posts ago I told people not to buy BTC and if you do keep it off an exchange, I have made it clear 53 million traders in BTC can never make any profit from a genuine user base of 400k (last years BTC user amount) So I am unsure where you think lies are coming from, Also you don’t seem to even have a clue what you’re talking about anyway so how would you know what I was lying about. Let me be crystal clear, If one does not understand BTC and they have never done trading or investing in BTC or anything else, **then It is not a good idea for you to start investing in BTC** as the genuine use cases of BTC are still very low. If this isn’t clear enough for you then you have issues. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2204 "2022-12-03T14:52:31Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > The pattern is that to convince people here I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. I have been very clear that BTC is not a good investment for the normal sort of person. It’s become clear that exchanges are not being honest with their investors which has become apparent. Your tirade against BTC itself has failed, your tirade against people will also fail because you don’t take any time to learn about this subject that you are speaking extensively on. I am interested in discussing fact and logic. I can admit though, I was sucked into all of this because I thought I could earn money from renting GPU processing power online to people who wanted to mine crypto coins. Even though I kept it real and still invested EXCLUSIVELY in computer components. I’m not mining hardly anything today and my rigs actually save me money on heating my home so I am very lucky I didn’t spend ££££ on buying BTC directly. The little BTC that I did earn was spent quickly, so effectively I was actually a genuine BTC user because it was used for retail purposes and not profit. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=107) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=109)