# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/221 "2022-03-10T15:04:43Z")
Well, if he has a good reason to take my money(/currency/honey), why not? Money(/currency/honey) is only taken either through contract or by a judge’s order. So He doesn’t really have that power but at least it’s not as dangerous as cryptocoins. If you mean interest rates, well, then I will be forced to invest in shares or buy houses or buy booze instead of saving. I have freedom of choice he cannot do anything. If you mean being not interested in me, I’ll just do the same and ignore him! That will show him! I’m a liability on more than just his balance sheet. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/222 "2022-03-10T15:05:11Z")
It’s not _money_, it’s _currency_. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/223 "2022-03-10T15:07:04Z")
Ok, Money represents the actual value of goods and services. Currency is a medium used to make day-to-day payments. People generally use it interchangeable, I’m sorry if I confused you. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/224 "2022-03-10T22:51:23Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > There are still people that influence the price. Its dependedent on many factors, and they can manipulate it. Dude, do you realize that the price of a thing and controlling how the thing works in it’s entirety are two completely different things? How can we even have a discussion about this topic if you struggle with such basic things? wtf ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/225 "2022-03-11T00:38:07Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > You said crypto is a high risk investment. You showed no concern of the “middle class” of El Salvador that ware required to accept bitcoin (if they have the electronic means). Go read what I wrote. I already explained to you that no one is required to receive Bitcoin. I know this seems to be super hard to get the head around, but Bitcoin is only used as a bearer asset to digitally transfer value, because it’s a digital native asset that makes this possible. The currency the customer sends or the shop receives can be something completely different. Again, people in El Salvador can receive Bitcoin payments but they receive the get actually dollars if they chose so, not Bitcoin. It’s completely up to them. I already explained this. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > You can’t stop complaining about an example where real money inflates in one posts then explain nothing on how bitcoin will solve that issue. Because it’s fixed supply and newly minted Bitcoin are not created out of thin air but by a lottery that requires the equivalent in energy. Money is an abstract form of energy and work, why should someone, even a government be able to create it out of thin air? Let’s say you have a money supply of 1 mil dollars and people use it to pay each other for work they do for each other. Money represents work. If those people get more efficient, then the same amount of money represents more work and all of them profit from the increase in productivity. Now imagine one person in the system has the power to print another 1 mil dollars. The amount of work people do is still the same, but suddenly it’s now represented by 2 mil dollars and not 1. This person just stole half of the work of all the people. How is that even remotely acceptable? This is the system we currently have in a really simplified form. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Bitcoin would not, so why compare bitcoin with real money if you are against making it legal tender? Because it’s too new and not capitalized enough. Using Bitcoin as money when it still has 50% dumps twice a year is completely stupid. It will eventually absorb enough capital that the value can’t be that easily manipulated, and at that point it will be the best choice as legal tender. Until then it still has other use cases like functioning as a bearer asset as I already mentioned, where volatility isn’t an issue. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > The concept of bitcoin / crypto is flawed and will not work in reality. Yes, casino tokens work in casinos, yes some people got rich out of it by chance, but that’s not a rule to say ‘hey, let’s use distributed casino tokens instead of money’ on a national or even worldwide scene. How can you even start to understand it if all you do is obsess about price action? You probably don’t even own Bitcoin. I do, yet I don’t give a ■■■■ what the price is today because it’s not important. Understanding the technology and the function of the network is. If you want to understand anything about this topic, stop focusing on the gamblers and start looking what the builders do. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > I can only assume you bought when it was high and are now hoping it will rise again, but it’s burned and wont. Lol, I bought when it was way under 10k > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Unless people like me are silenced (what you suggest a lot because your sales pitch isn’t holding up under scrutiny) however I believe people are free to offer their ideas and suggestions on this forums and others are free to counter them with facts and fiction alike. I don’t have a sales pitch, I just correct your ramblings about a topic you really like to talk about but have actually zero knowledge to show. And I’m sorry to say, but you are doing a really bad job giving the critic here, because it’s painfully obvious that you don’t really know what you are talking about. If you actually had any insights we would hear actual arguments instead of empty statements like “it’s a scam” > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Bitcoin is like Esperanto, a good idea, but just like any decentralized concept not going to be implemented worldwide ever, just like bitcoin. We will see about that. I’m pretty sure it has already won and the network is at a size where it is already unstoppable. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > That is a partial lie. Every citizen got $30 on their wallet. If they were smart they exchanged it as fast as possible in real money. Again, I don’t keep on saying you aren’t informed, I just inform and correct you. Can you be honest for a second. You made a drama about businesses having to accept Bitcoin about payments. Yes, every El Salvadorian got a $30 Bitcoin handout, that is hardly what we talked about and no one got poorer by receiving that gift. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > And yes, tehy will probably stop making Bitcoin legal tender. ( [IMF urges El Salvador to remove Bitcoin as legal tender - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-60135552) ) El Salvador is a sovereign nation and the IMF can cry all day about them making Bitcoin legal tender without anyone giving a ■■■■ about it. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > I’m not the guy stuck with the crypto-tokens nor with any of the NFT receipts. This all only makes sense to you if you can pretend I’m somehow trapped, right? I just checked, just for you, I’m like \> 400% up on my investment. Oh no, how could I fall for this trap, I’m ruined. Oh and I don’t care about or own any NFT because that absolutely useless trash, and I have never even remotely seen a valid use case for it. The only two other coins other than Bitcoin I hold is ETH and ADA, which I honestly think are utter trash but I hold them as a hedge if Bitcoin fails because of the whole energy debate this are in my opinion the only two “viable” replacements, even though I vomit a bit in my mouth every time I think about that possibility. Oh and they are like \> 1000% up from where I bought them, how utterly trapped I am, ■■■■ my life. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > They ran out of gold to print money to make the economy work again. Good luck with your satoshi’s, but I’m sure more cryptocoins albeit with another name like “TechnicallyNotBitcoin-Coin” will be created because otherwise the economy would collapse, something you don’t address at all, with reason. You don’t make the economy work again by printing money. You just delay the inevitable and make the outcome of the eventual crash worse. Fiat money is an experiment that failed in it’s infancy already. And you don’t inflate the supply of one currency by having hundreds of others literally no one cares about. Hasbro printing monopoly money also doesn’t inflate the dollar supply. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Again here, bitcoin does not offer solutions nor replace the existing coin/bill/electronic payment system. It does not offer any advantage at all, like last time you were saying lightning would tranfer money alml over the world cheap. Then I gave examples of comparable non-crypto and you go on ranting but the fact is. It. already. exists. at. the. same. cost. You either didn’t or I simply missed it, which I doubt. Feel free to provide an example of a digital system that can transport value over the globe between different banks that isn’t based on a digital native crypto asset. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > So the oligarchs mining would be able to? Or do you really think ‘the people’ ownes the large mining infrastructure? The majority of the network enforcing the rules and making it impossible to change them has absolutely nothing to do with mining. Miners produce blocks, whose purpose is to bring transactions into a historical order. That is literally all they do. EVERYONE ELSE is then checking if that block follows the rules and if it isn’t it’s discarded. How are you so confident in your ranting but I still have to explain such basics because your whole rant is based on a complete misunderstanding? It boggles my mind. It’s also really telling how you throw the word “oligarch” in there just to associate the topic with the very negative sentiment that word is currently caring. Really handy if you don’t have an actual argument at hand. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > “simple unchangable rules” 🙂 Oh my, if the economy was like that. Good you guys found teh solution to economic problems. lol. Bitcoin isn’t “the economy”, it’s simply money and money doesn’t have to be intentionally complicated. The economy worked for far longer on the gold standard than it does on the failing fiat standard. It will continue to work on the Bitcoin standard once it is capitalized enough to provide that function. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > They also played it as they cashed out part when it went back down, then reinvested when it was low making quite a profit. ONE COMPANY played bitcoin. Sailor always boasts that they will never sell, and I did not have any reason to doubt that. Feel free to present any actual evidence that he sold instead of just words. But just to be clear, even if he sold, I literally don’t give a ■■■■, because he can do whatever he wants. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > ONE. I guess that CEO is more trustable than any bank CEO if I take your word for it. But aside of your word, what makes me trust that shady businessman more than some random banker? This is basically just you obsessing about short term price action again. Also while I’m 100% sure there is price manipulation going on I’m pretty sure it’s not because Sailor sells. The two 50% dumps we saw, one last summer and one couple weeks back where probably liquidation cascades by over-leveraged traders. I can explain in detail what that is and how you can see that if you are interested. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Another player, however half as big has been tweeting on other valuables, is this why you don’t want someone in charge? Is this why Elon Musk laughs at the SEC while he plays with the money of El Salvadorians? Whenever there is a winner, there are losers. Seriously, now you completely lost me. Somehow this gives me the impression you still conflate price action with control over a currency, which honestly makes me feel I’m talking to a wall here. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/226 "2022-03-11T09:45:56Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Bitcoin is only used as a bearer asset to digitally transfer value Exchange rates. Do you know what that means? Value is set not by you, and not in bitcoin. Its result of multiple factors. Those changing factors make bitcoin a bad transfer “coin”. They make it good speculation “coin”. Speculation doesnt guarantee the profit. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/227 "2022-03-11T09:49:53Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Those changing factors make bitcoin a bad transfer “coin” Not true, transfers take seconds to minutes, not days or weeks. Volatility is managable for such time periods. Payments already lock in prices for a time period for purchasing. This is almost instant with Layer 2. How often has one purchased forex currency for holiday travel only to find it dumped the next day? In fact, look what happened in the current economic war tool, even more volatility in state currencies. With hyperinflation people rush as fast as possible to buy staples. People hold the hardest currency available, in crypto that’s Bitcoin (BTC), in precious metal money that’s gold (money, not currency and you want some of that right now). In state currency that’s the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/228 "2022-03-11T09:54:08Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > How often has one purchased forex currency for holiday travel only to find it dumped the next day? The thing isnt only about the volatility, but also scale of it. You cant keep your funds in bitcoin, as it will undermine your company liquidity and credibility, in comparison when keeping funds in $ for example. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/229 "2022-03-11T09:54:46Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You cant keep your funds in bitcoin You can’t keep your funds in a state currency with negative interest rates or growing inflation either. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/230 "2022-03-11T09:57:57Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > You can’t keep your funds in a state currency with negative interest rates either or growing inflation either. Thats why you have to diversify. You can keep a piece of crypto as an “investment” but actually you speculate by that, and it still makes your liquidity and credibility go down. Investment in gambling was never a good option if you dont own cassino yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/231 "2022-03-11T09:58:44Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Thats why you have to diversify. In other words, don’t hodl state currency for any length of time, it’s also not a generational wealth store. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/232 "2022-03-11T10:01:05Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > generational wealth store If you would want your children to have a better life, you have to teach them how to not lose money first on gambling. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/233 "2022-03-11T10:03:10Z")
You cannot eliminate risk from your life, in fact you should hold some low % of risk taking in your portfolio, in fact fund managers are allocated a small % to take a risk, companies also take a risk with allowing employees to be creative in a lab environment some times a week, as it may turn out to be a success. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/234 "2022-03-11T10:08:31Z")
Small risk is always manageable and acceptable, when you know what you do and how to mitigate the damages that can arise. For example when you own a house that you rent, the risk that it will be unprofitable is very low, as you can raise or lower the rent or get more renters, or decide what kind of renter you want in contract. The fact that people will need roof above them is the fact that will not change, especially in areas with big amount of people, in cities. When you own bitcoin, you can only sell or buy. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/235 "2022-03-11T10:09:25Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > When you own bitcoin, you can only sell or buy. Same can be said for equities. If you want rent, you lend, that can include currencies, you can also use it as collateral in borrowing, gold is good here. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/236 "2022-03-11T10:13:19Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > Same can be said for equities. And that is when people have to be carefull. They are not much different from gambling also. The skill to read the market may be helping, but only to a small degree. You can predict some things, but not all. In all kinds of games, you may minimize your risk or losses, but with bitcoin only option is to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/237 "2022-03-11T10:13:43Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > but with bitcoin only option is to believe. People believed in Enron (and listened to Cramer). Wondering why Amazon (AMZN) are now splitting 20:1 so “retail” can buy into it? That should be a red flag to you, the dumpening onto retail cometh. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 10:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/238 "2022-03-11T10:44:28Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > People believed in Enron Yes, and they believed people who controlled it, consequences were that new legislations were enacted to make future not see such things as with Enron, when they believed in false things. Bitcoin is not regulated at all. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/239 "2022-03-11T11:40:00Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Bitcoin is not regulated at all. The whitepaper says absolutely nothing about regulation, Bitcoin does not require regulation, companys are regulated. What you are asking for is called _overreach_. You want open source regulated too? Enron was a _regulated_ company. Google is a _regulated_ company. They do no evil right? State fiat currency is _regulated_, look at all the blood spilled and crimes committed with it. Forex is _regulated_, banking is _regulated_, look all the market manipulation and bank fines. When criminals are raided, you see piles of dollar, pounds and Euro bills stacked. When banks fail, the tax payer bails them out, pile the burden onto the tax payer. You can choose any _regulated_ company to hold your finances as you wish. When do we start burning books? ```auto $ git clone https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin.git ``` ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/240 "2022-03-11T12:04:35Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Exchange rates. Do you know what that means? Value is set not by you, and not in bitcoin. Its result of multiple factors. Those changing factors make bitcoin a bad transfer “coin”. They make it good speculation “coin”. Speculation doesnt guarantee the profit. Yes, there are exchange rates. So if you have a payment that involves switching currencies you have at most two exchanges. But it turns out that even with two exchanges, that is most of the time cheaper than using FOREX directly between the two currencies. And even if you just have just USD to USD payments locally, two exchanges from and too BTC are still cheaper than what VISA or Mastercard charges the shop owner for payments done trough them. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=13)