# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2471 "2022-12-10T14:30:13Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Well, they tried to make it look like BTC was going to explode and everyone would be using it by next year which is very misleading. Indeed. That’s why I was repeating “it’s a ponzi” . Because it was. You see, once you understand what the term actually means, you can understand what I was actually talking about. But as long as you were in that fanatism “BTC is the future” there was no point arguing with you. So my point was, that YOU were helping those guys make money buy over promoting BTC without the knowledge required to criticize the situation. You were manipulated into doing so, by techno BS. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2472 "2022-12-10T15:24:55Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > That’s why I was repeating “it’s a ponzi” . Because it was. I’ve already agreed that salesmen and investors used BTC as part of their ponzi and that’s as far as I will go. History shows us blatantly that many things are used as part of a ponzi. This still does not make BTC on it’s own a ponzi. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > But as long as you were in that fanatism “BTC is the future” there was no point arguing with you. I still believe a digital currency managed by the people is the future, weather it’s BTC or another digital coin. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > So my point was, that YOU were helping those guys make money buy over promoting BTC without the knowledge required to criticize the situation. > You were manipulated into doing so, by techno BS. I can see we are just going to go into our back and fourth which isn’t productive, ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2473 "2022-12-10T15:33:13Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > This still does not make BTC on it’s own a ponzi. This is a nonsense. BTC on its own can’t be a ponzi. Because a ponzi refers solely to an investment. So when I say it’s a ponzi, I talk about BTC as an investment. But since you did not understand what a ponzi is but still claimed it’s not, then there was no point talking with you. You were proud of your ignorance and required over simplified terms to groom your back, not accepting the complex reasoning that proved this was one. It was stupidity that made you claim this was not a ponzi. You were too happy to be in the “good” team, the one “in the future”, who promoted “social concerns”. Blinded by your ignorance. > [@Aaron](#): > > I still believe a digital currency managed by the people is the future, weather it’s BTC or another digital coin. More things become digital. No reason yet to not be the same wrt money. > [@Aaron](#): > > I can see we are just going to go into our back and fourth which isn’t productive, Well yes, now you can read that again with the understanding that I was right, and you were wrong. That you were wrong from the beginning. That you called me an ignorant, that you claimed things to be facts when they were only opinions that you agreed on. Now you can count the hundreds of times you were wrong in that topic. And maybe you can learn to not insult people when you don’t understand what they’re talking about. Because that’s what growing up entails. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2474 "2022-12-10T16:44:22Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > This is a nonsense. BTC on its own can’t be a ponzi. Because a ponzi refers solely to an investment. So when I say it’s a ponzi, I talk about BTC as an investment. I somewhat agree, only because current investors were making it look like BTC would take off due to billions of people suddenly using it for retail which isn’t the case. BTC is still a great investment ONLY for experienced investors that have a full understanding that BTC will take a long time to be widely adopted. BTC is not really an investment for normal people who might need their money as fiat within the next couple of years because they want to send their kids to university for example. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Well yes, now you can read that again with the understanding that I was right, and you were wrong. That you were wrong from the beginning. That you called me an ignorant, that you claimed things to be facts when they were only opinions that you agreed on. Now you can count the hundreds of times you were wrong in that topic. > And maybe you can learn to not insult people when you don’t understand what they’re talking about. Because that’s what growing up entails. I don’t think you talk straight, It’s impossible to be right when you have so many of the facts wrong, Everyone can see what you have written here (in this entire thread) and it’s apparent that you lack understanding of what BTC is and it’s function, (you said TCP/IP can do what BTC does for example) you must understand that you are wrong on some things and this is where the back and fourth comes from, you seem to have an issue admitting you are wrong. Accept that you still have learning to do regarding what BTC is. Don’t bother going back and fourth with me on this point. Based on what you yourself have written about BTC it is very clear to knowledgeable people that you were wrong. Any back and forth on this point will be completely ignored. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > And maybe you can learn to not insult people when you don’t understand what they’re talking about. Because that’s what growing up entails. I didn’t understand what you were talking about because you were wrong on a few things which I will never get on board with. You were wrong about the technical workings of BTC and you were told as such. People only listen to others when they are factually right which you obviously know because you are a grown adult. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2475 "2022-12-10T16:57:57Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > BTC is still a great investment ONLY for experienced investors that have a full understanding that BTC will take a long time to be widely adopted. No it’s not. BTC does not provide any added value. It’s not a company that can give you report on its work and a proof people inside are not doing stupid things on a whim. Any claim that it’s a good investment is part of a ponzi. If you consider the usage is interesting, then use it. But the reality is, you don’t know if BTC can keep working in the future. There are a lot of issues, and as someone else said people are already avoiding it for actual payments, because it’s too expensive and too slow. Lightning is not BTC, if people use lightning it means they don’t use BTC. > [@Aaron](#): > > (you said TCP/IP can do what BTC does for example) Read again. That’s not exactly what I wrote. You are distorting my words, claiming I wrote only this is a plain lie and defamation. Again, you make up claim that are nonsensical. It only shows your lack of understanding of what I wrote. > [@Aaron](#): > > you must understand that you are wrong on some things I am not. YOU don’t understand what I wrote, does not mean that what I wrote is wrong. YOU are the one being wrong, for the sole reason your brain can’t accept reality. > [@Aaron](#): > > You were wrong about the technical workings of BTC and you were told as such. Where exactly ? It’s easy to pretend other people are wrong. It’s harder to prove they are. I proved already you were. Don’t try to claim I am the one who could not accept BTC was a ponzi. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2476 "2022-12-10T17:05:35Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Read again. That’s not exactly what I wrote. You are distorting my words, claiming I wrote only this is a plain lie and defamation. It’s there for me to go back and quote, feel free to type what you meant when you mentioned TCP/IP and BTC. Are you now trying to say you never mentioned TCP/IP and BTC in the same sentence? The floor is yours, feel free to explain yourself so that I can understand why you mentioned TCP/IP and BTC. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Where exactly ? It’s easy to pretend other people are wrong. It’s harder to prove they are. > I proved already you were. Don’t try to claim I am the one who could not accept BTC was a ponzi. That is my belief based on what you wrote, as I said feel free to explain yourself when you mentioned TCP/IP and BTC. The floor is yours and you have my full attention. You now have an opportunity to clarify what you meant. But for some reason I just think you will continue with your nonsense back and fourth instead of clarifying what you said. Prove me wrong and explain yourself! ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2477 "2022-12-10T17:08:07Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > feel free to type what you meant when you mentioned TCP/IP and BTC I already did. You’re just not reading what does not go in your direction. That’s dishonest. You are a liar when you pretend I only wrote that they are the same. > [@Aaron](#): > > Are you now trying to say you never mentioned TCP/IP and BTC in the same sentence? I’m saying you are a liar. Nothing more, nothing less. > [@Aaron](#): > > The floor is yours, feel free to explain yourself so that I can understand why you mentioned TCP/IP and BTC. I already did several times, you just don’t read. Seems like you are a complete idiot so there is no point tyo explain you things you don’t want to understand. You were wrong, but now you become a liar. > [@Aaron](#): > > That is my belief based on what you wrote, No it’s not based on what I wrote. It’s based on what you want to believe. Read again what I actually wrote. You are wrong, again, and it makes you a liar and your words defamation because your claim about my acts are not based. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2478 "2022-12-10T17:10:39Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > I already did. You’re just not reading what does not go in your direction. > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not important. > It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency. Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. I am very confused about what you wrote here, are you able to explain yourself further as what you wrote here seems inaccurate? Or are you happy to just leave me misunderstanding what you actually meant? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2479 "2022-12-10T17:10:52Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > > [@Aaron](#): > > > > a computer system with an important purpose of verifying transactions. > > It’s not important. > It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency. Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. For the record, here is exactly what I wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2480 "2022-12-10T17:11:24Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > For the record, here is exactly what I wrote. I asked you to technically explain it, are you able to do that? if you fail to explain yourself I will still misunderstand you. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2481 "2022-12-10T17:12:45Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > are you able to explain yourself further as what you wrote here seems inaccurate? There is nothing to explain. Nowhere in that quote do I pretend that TCP and BTC are the same thing. You are just lying when you pretend > [@Aaron](#): > > you said TCP/IP can do what BTC does for example That’s all. You are saying something completely stupid. You are the one pretending I made such a claim. You can’t prove it. So it’s defamation on your part. You are LYING. The facts you claim as such do not actually exist. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2482 "2022-12-10T17:14:03Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Nowhere in that quote do I pretend that TCP and BTC are the same thing. I’ve withdrawn that conclusion and am now asking you directly what you meant, are you able to provide an answer? > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You are LYING. The facts you claim as such do not actually exist. So asking you to clarify what you meant is me lying? I don’t think so. I’ve withdrawn that conclusion and am now asking you directly what you meant, are you able to provide an answer? or is it just going to be more nonsense back and fourth? ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2483 "2022-12-10T17:16:46Z")
Dude if you don’t understand what I wrote, I can’t teach you because there is nothing more to understand than exactly what is written. What I wrote is simple, non ambiguous. > [@Aaron](#): > > I’ve withdrawn that conclusion You’ve not, you repeated claimed I wrote such a thing while I did not. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2484 "2022-12-10T17:18:23Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > You’ve not, you repeated claimed I wrote such a thing while I did not. I simply quoted what you yourself typed and asked you to explain? is that a crime? The slate is clear and you have an opportunity to fully explain what you mean in greater detail. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2485 "2022-12-10T17:19:39Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > It’s not important. > It does not verify anything. It just checks its input consistency. Which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. Just in case you don’t understand what “it” refers to : The first “it” is the purpose of verifying transactions. The second and next “it” is the system. Your system with BTC does not “verify” transactions. A BTC node only checks its input consistency, which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2486 "2022-12-10T17:20:46Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Your system with BTC does not “verify” transactions. A BTC node only checks its input consistency, which any computer with a tcp/ip stack does. @Karak_Terrel what do you think of this? I don’t think this is accurate so my conclusion is you don’t have a full understanding of how BTC works. I’m asking karak because he has experience with this and I believe he has already saidd you are wrong on this point. “The TCP/IP Stack works just like the OSI model by **establishing a set of rules and standards for communication in and between the different layers**. These rules ensure that different products can communicate with each other because they are developed around the same guidelines.” According to the OSI model, the BTC system is on the application layer, and the TCP/IP stack is part of the transport layer. It’s a communication standard. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2487 "2022-12-10T17:27:53Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I simply quoted what you yourself typed and asked you to explain? NO. You are lying again. You repeatedly pretended I wrote things that I did not write, even after I told you that was wrong. THAT is defamation. I have no reason to spend time explaining you what I wrote. You were wrong, you were insulting, and you made me waste my time with your stupidity, by distorting what I actually wrote. You are culprit of being a troll. > [@Aaron](#): > > I don’t think this is accurate so my conclusion is you don’t have a full understanding of how BTC works. I don’t give a poop. The point is, you repeatedly insulted me and practiced defamation for the sole reason I did not agree with your stupid comments. Your lack of ability to actually detect what is fact and what is opinion prevents you from participating in any serious discussion. You debilitating delusion doubles down on your lacks in logics and listening. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2488 "2022-12-10T17:28:46Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > I don’t give a poop. Which is why I can’t agree with you fully as you don’t seem to care if you are wrong, do you understand now.? > [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Your lack of ability to actually detect what is fact and what is opinion prevents you from participating in any serious discussion. You debilitating delusion doubles down on your lacks in logics and listening. Type what you like, I can’t agree with someone who doesn’t know what they are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2489 "2022-12-10T18:17:41Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > I can’t agree with you fully as you don’t seem to care if you are wrong No. You can’t agree with me because you can’t understand what I’m saying. You claimed that I Wrote things that I did not write. That’s defamation. So any thing you say based on defamation is useless. Don’t pretend people should accept you being a liar an doing defamation when people disagree with you. That’s more stupidity. You try to avoid your responsibility by changing the topic. You can’t. You’re a liar. You accept to claim things that you know wrong when it presents disagreeing people badly. That’s the definition of lying. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/2490 "2022-12-10T18:31:08Z")
You should try and chill out buddy, I’m always wrong on a lot of things, being wrong enables us learn about something and move forward. A friend of mine went went to do a first aid test and scored 8/10 they was a bit upset that they didn’t get 10/10 so I said that they are now in a better position to know what they need to revise further, it turns out there is a difference in the CPR you would give to a child and adult. My friend studied this further and got a clear understanding of why it is done in such a way. All we can do is learn. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=121) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=123)