# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/601 "2022-05-22T09:37:00Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Do Kwon could learn a thing or two > [@Aaron](#): > > regain his communities trust He doesnt have to do anything like that. He had to do that before, not now, now he have the money. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/602 "2022-05-22T09:44:49Z")
---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/603 "2022-05-22T12:50:33Z")
If he is to continue creating these schemes he will need to make amends with his community, otherwise all of his future products will fail due to there being no support. There’s no way anyone would invest anything with him right now. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/604 "2022-05-22T13:25:49Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You still can’t differentiate between Bitcoin and those scams right? No one can as thay are all directly related. Lightning Network, as you keep bringing up should also not be mentioned then as it’s just a layer that was added after people realized the one thing the ledger could not do was doing what it was made for. this wasn’t a problem until it was popular. Good to see people fix the holes they never intended to reach. Also, without other crypto, Aaron would not be mining. Alt-coin printer goes brrr. Bill Gates promoting Crypto : > **[Bill Gates Says Digital Currencies Could Empower the Poorest](https://www.globalcitizen.org/de/content/bill-gates-cryptocurrency-poverty/)** > > Bill Gates said digital currencies have the potential to transform the lives of the world’s poorest. Bill Gates telling people Bitcoin has no value besides what people are tricked into believing. [https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/bill-gates-says-bitcoin-does-not-benefit-society](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/bill-gates-says-bitcoin-does-not-benefit-society) > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > , he will easily be the richest guy in the world. No, Claus Schwab will sign a post with Satoshi Nakamoto’s signature and he’ll be the richest person and you’ll own nothing and be happy. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > you will cry about it crashing down to 100k I won’t as I don’t invest in imaginary coins. I do correct people when they say things that I doubt. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > The only reason fiat even exists is because they forced it’s use by abusing their monopoly on violence. Oh my, that is the funniest thing ever. Fiat money, kinda like what you would like Bitcoin to become, is silmply a “conform way to make trade”. Countries that have a (small) bad economy sometimes resort to using the currency of another country for reasonable stability. Does it fix corruption, lol no. Even, and this is hypothetically speaking, if Bitcoin become the world standard currency, it wont. Because since no one controls it it’s free to fluctuate. It is like esperanto, yes many people believe one day we will all speak it but we don’t. Maybe because “people with a monopoly on violence” are making us so? I don’t know, but criminals seem to love and adopt crypto. Also some failed states are looking into BTC and in EL Salvador, the guy who has the monopoly on violence forced Bitcoin but was surprised that la abiding citizens rather just kept their fiat. How much of a fail is that? If BTC would anywhere near the promises non-scammers make everyone would have adopted it. Did a few people not have to go for hours to find a bank? Yes, but realistically speaking, El Salvador is the example of why Bitcoin will never work. No matter what you say the proof is there. But yes, you can say “2 days, 2 weeks, 2 years…” and in 2 decades well, we’ll see. We are currently facing a large correction of the economy, could be quite a difficult time and STILL people don’t trust Bitcoin. Man, I hate to bring it to you but if you didn’t have it already, it’s going to become decades before it will be anywhere near a currency. It’s a nice casino token and the “evil bankers” have a firm grip on it. But by all means, everyone in the world has good intentions, crime is imaginary. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/605 "2022-05-22T13:27:19Z")
The pivot from equities to commodities continues. Last time I posted this chart, the ratio was 0.18, now it’s 0.20. (see [The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value - #425 by Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/425) for reference). ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/d/8/1d8360f576f04757a28518520cc35622f5004dab.png) Figure 1: SPGSCI/SPX ratio and Buffett metric Bounced off the fabled 200% line Warren Buffett said “be afraid”, 143% was the last peak, traders are probably going to wait for sub 100% to reenter equities where equities market cap would be more value w.r.t GDP (in other words, undervalued). ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/b/a/cba8acd57eda9628a1735ddc1d6f66e72f5f8eed.png) Figure 2: Buffett metric (FRED:WILL5000PRFC/FRED:GDP) ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/606 "2022-05-22T13:28:25Z")
Imagine people still not being so scared to be “volunteered” in giving up their fiat for imaginary coins. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/607 "2022-05-22T13:32:19Z")
The WEF want you to own nothing and be happy, rent everything, share everything (there will also be reduced to no privacy with this model). People will go along with it to virtue signal under the brand of green. To achieve that they will have to make cost of living worse so you have no choice but to rent, or price things more favourable to rent, and out of reach buy. They also want you to change what you eat, into synthetic manufactured food (eating lots of food is not always meaning getting lots of nutrition). That means scarcity is in their favour. They also want you to not own houses, but rent, share and be mobile. Price housing out of reach of owning, collapse retail face to face businesses so it favours their model. Their digital model also enables tracking your consumption. They will quanitify your living. Expect social scoring via this route. They have written and published and spoke this themselves. Even the _opposition_ is connected to the WEF. Not just the ones in leading. None of this is super secret, or secret at all, it’s all in the open. _Cui bono_. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/608 "2022-05-22T13:47:00Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > To achieve that they will have to make cost of living worse Mankind does this anyway. who would have though eating/storing bats and other wild animals in unsanitary conditions would cause a world wide pandemic where everyone had to stop and stay at home in order to beat it. Because of the pandemic governments were forced to pay out loads of furlough/stimulus money which now has to be slowly paid back. Is it possible to deal with the idiots in Wuhan first before trying to deal with mysterious manipulative shadow people who we never see? ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/609 "2022-05-22T13:47:46Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > mysterious manipulative shadow people who we never see? They’re not shadow people, plenty of books, papers, videos, agreements written by them. They literally tell you what their plan and objective is. Read their “works”. I wouldn’t suggest buying the book funding them, just read it. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/610 "2022-05-22T13:49:34Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > They literally tell you what their plan and objective is. Possibly true, but as I said. Anyone dealing in a wet food market must be regulated and rules must be set otherwise we will find ourselves in the same problem. As far as i can see the pandemic is the cause of a lot of what is happening now. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/611 "2022-05-22T13:50:50Z")
Their positioning and timing of their _solutions_ is _impeccible_. Every time! That usually only happens when you are in control of it and know about it. Certinally before you. Kind of like insider trading. Those closest to the King benefit the most. Orwell wasn’t a mind reading genius, he was just very observant. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/612 "2022-05-22T14:16:18Z")
You do have a point there, corruption is expanding and those who don’t want to get caught need more ‘safety’ and they way you explain some of their plans/procedures I understand. However, if you see how fast the “GameStop” was recovered by the bankers, how many months would it take them to overtake bitcoin in 2018? I am not even sure if they overtook it or most probably actually started it as Bitcoin would be their wet dream. Imagine people throwing their money into an asset that has no intrinsic value and that can just poof without anyone being put in jail for it… It’s not only to good to be true, it’s too supported by clearly bankers who dress up as kids and make a presentation like kids. Unironically, bonds would yield more than Bitcoin. And that’s a painful observation. And but If you get more people to invest in the pyramid… eh Bitcoin, then it will work. 😃 I understand the “If it’s too clear it’s a scgheme, let’s just point out the economy is going bad and Satoshi is like 'Can I have your stuff?”. I would not be surprised if Satoshi is a grumpy EVE Online veteran. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/613 "2022-05-22T14:20:25Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > eating/storing bats and other wild animals in unsanitary conditions would cause a world wide pandemic Now that is ‘almost’ over, would you believe making sweet love to diseased monkeys would also cause problems? Maybe it’s just that we got too “free” and went out of bounds? Anyways, nature will do its thing and we either evolve or devolve. I just like my flushing toilets, let’s hope we don’t devolve. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/614 "2022-05-22T14:26:27Z")
> > > Jeremy Loffredo @loffredojeremy This is just the beginning, your reset, is going to be a hard reset. The societial world as you know it, is over if they get their way, and they will. They even said that, it’s over. No going back. These are very well funded, connected and powerful people. So far, no push back. This is _opportunity_ for them, not a crisis. It is now or never for them. They will amplify it up more. _Yuval Noah Harari_, whom I have mentioned before in other topics, is right in the earhole of the WEF at the top. Everything is in their favour. Funny that. Remember, it’s just a _conspiracy theory_ from fringe nut jobs. Funny how also things branded that a decade ago are now in the open legitimised. How do you enslave free people? You scare them into compliance. Less resistance and fight back then. Once you’re in their digital society, you won’t be able to live in society without it and you must comply or lose access to parts of that society (that already happens in China, leaders and oligarchs praise that). Preppers were branded nut jobs too, funny, they seem well stocked and supplied now, how is it for you? ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/615 "2022-05-22T14:53:38Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > how is it for you? I didn’t stock up, I didn’t prepare nor train myself for wilderness/off the grid survival. I sensibly chuckled at those videos on youtube. I guess there is no other solution for me than to comply. And rent the PC on which I will play EVE Online. I do not think it’s a now or never for them, I think they are a bit sad the world didn’t go on a full scale war, shifting or reinforcing the powerhous(es). But with people being distant of their finances and politics I think they have an opportunity to take those over. After all it’s just meta-nature at play. ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/616 "2022-05-22T14:55:07Z")
Dependency is the greatest form of control. They want you to be dependent on them. You cannot buy goods online/services _without_ a bank! Whatever you use, they MUST control it. They have proven many times they can and will shut you down if you don’t comply with the states demands or even the will of corporations, banks and payments. They are also about to add in a score on top of that, not just for borrowing (credit score) but a social behaviour / green score. Once they get under your skin surveillience, they can monitor your behaviour too. And not just what you do, we live in a world of _predictive_ modelling, what you _might_ do in the near future (accurate or inaccurate), they can and will do that. They already run models (Monte Carlo etc) on economics, travel and purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/617 "2022-05-22T15:05:38Z")
> [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > You cannot buy goods online/services _without_ a bank! There are online “goods versus goods” trading places. But that aside, most of the online trade does require a bank account. > [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](#): > > a score People play the credit score , mostly in the US, well. Borrow while having money and repay will increase your score. Thus mostly nullifying the risk analysis. The green score will be probably the same. Evey hour we play EVE Online we get a -1, so let’s make sure we got some spare change. In fiat currency because I wouldn’t assume crypto being accepted here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/618 "2022-05-22T15:19:11Z")
“It’s just data”, you should fear what the consequence of that is, not just a invasion of your privacy, but the actions they (the state or corporations, but the state is the most armed corporation) can and will take upon that information. That is what people are forgetting as consequences. They have already stated (and tried to pass into law, and won’t stop trying to pass laws to that effect) the power to invade your home and take you out of it. I can link WHO videos (funny also they have a treaty being passed to grab more power) of that. That should scare the bejebus out of you. They don’t see your own home, as _your_ sanctuary. That right there will cause resistance, and they know it. Your world, as you know it, is over in a generation. They won’t see the liberties and freedoms you had. You didn’t defend to protect it. Tyranny is always one generation away. This is a multi-generational goal of theirs, a long game. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/619 "2022-05-22T16:42:34Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > No one can as thay are all directly related. Just because they use the same technology doesn’t mean they are in any way related. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Lightning Network, as you keep bringing up should also not be mentioned then as it’s just a layer that was added after people realized the one thing the ledger could not do was doing what it was made for. this wasn’t a problem until it was popular. Good to see people fix the holes they never intended to reach. No, the limitations of the blockchain where known from the start. This is not a problem about technology but about physics. Reaching consensus over something in a decentralized fashion on a global scale doesn’t scale very well. All the cryptos that make promises about being faster make in reality just other trade-offs that makes it harder to run a node for the user (hardware requirements) and therefor sacrifices decentralization. Lightning isn’t another coin, it’s just a second protocol layer to scale Bitcoin without sacrificing the security and decentralization of the monetary base layer. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Bill Gates promoting Crypto : I really don’t care what Bill Gates has to say about crypto and I really don’t know why I should read that. > [@Aedaxus](#): > > No, Claus Schwab will sign a post with Satoshi Nakamoto’s signature and he’ll be the richest person and you’ll own nothing and be happy. Even if Schwab was Satoshi, which he clearly isn’t, it would not matter, because it does not change the way how Bitcoin works. You spend a lot of time obsessing about the opinion of rich and famous people, probably because they have a lot to say and can influence the legacy system. This doesn’t work for Bitcoin > [@Aedaxus](#): > > I won’t as I don’t invest in imaginary coins. I do correct people when they say things that I doubt. You are making the most intelligent Bitcoin investment you can by being skeptical and learning about it 🙂 a lot of people skip that step, which makes them lose a lot of money because they have to first go trough the shitcoiner phase, > [@Aedaxus](#): > > Fiat money, kinda like what you would like Bitcoin to become, is silmply a “conform way to make trade” Fiat money is probably the biggest scam in the history of humanity. I highly encourage you to look into how it came about. The whole narrative about regulating the supply to stabilize the economy is complete ■■■■■■■■. What they are actually doing is stealing your time and work by debasing the very thing you use to store that in. It’s a way to leech more taxes out of the pockets of the people without actually having to face the political consequences of raising taxes. Tell me, how is it possible that we have more and more automation, yet it is literally harder for regular people with regular jobs to finance even a somewhat normal life, something our parents could easily do in a more labor intensive economy? Where do you think that additional work produced by the machines is going? This is even more important than learning about Bitcoin. First maybe understand the problem it is trying to solve. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/620 "2022-05-22T16:49:23Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > There are online “goods versus goods” trading places. But that aside, most of the online trade does require a bank account. A large part of stuff I buy online is already done with payments from my own system I completely control. No bank involved. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=32)