# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/761 "2022-06-12T18:56:37Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Also, to create new bills, they aren’t created out of nothing (or trillions in electricity bills) but they purchases longer-term securities from the open market in order to **increase the money supply** to **encourage lending and investment.** You fiat friends always have the same lines you repeat? Can’t be a coincidence. Did you even think about the thing you just repeated? Just because they buy securities to put the money out into circulation doesn’t change the fact that the money they use to buy those securities just got created out of thin air. Think about what happens here for a second. Money represents work and time. When they created that money, the amount of work and time on the market didn’t get bigger, but the same amount is now represented by more money. So the money people earned by doing the work gets them now less work back than they put in. And then that stolen work gets redistributed to “longer-term securities from the open market”, a.k.a their rich friends. You think that is fine? I call that theft. Oh and by the way, this is just about the central bank money. Banks can just create money out of thin air too, in fact that is probably the bigger part of the pie. Every time someone goes to the bank and takes out a loan, that money just gets created out of thin air right then and there. The bank only needs enough central bank money to settle with other banks, otherwise they can create as much money as they want. And obviously they completely overdid it this time because they probably started to believe their own lies that this will totally work out, despite the fact that ever since this fiat experiment started an ever increasing bubble of layers up on layers of debt is piling up and it’s even accelerating. Even without covid and war they seem to have no plan how to ever salvage that situation. They will surely blame all sorts of things but themselves for the eventual collapse. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/762 "2022-06-12T18:57:20Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > our current fiat system? The current fiat system is more complex and it could be better. However saying “We should change it into random hashing” isn’t what I think anywhere near a solution to the issues of the system. It’s like “There is a problem with your car, so I replaced the windows of your house.” Thanks but it won’t fix the car. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/763 "2022-06-12T18:58:56Z")
You you suggest BTC should be abandoned and we should follow Sharia law (maybe just for economics)? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/764 "2022-06-12T18:59:02Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > The current fiat system is more complex and it could be better. How could it be better exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/765 "2022-06-12T18:59:37Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > You you suggest BTC should be abandoned and we should follow Sharia law (maybe just for economics)? You got that from my text? Karen moment? ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/766 "2022-06-12T19:00:55Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > How could it be better exactly? Maybe they could just burn oil? For every US Dollar Bill? Just kidding, I don’t know how to make the system simpler and better. It will probably become more elaborate. Still, you propose BTC, why should I defend the current system that is the norm? It is the norm no matter what I can say to way people to make it become the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/767 "2022-06-12T19:02:58Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You got that from my text? Karen moment? Are you calling me a Karen?! I want to speak to your manager NOW! That aside, I see you want to probably do away wet the lending part? Or the interest part? Not sure you sure seem to balem a lot on teh system, give no solution and then say “BTC good. Fiat Bad.” I can see the nice things of BTC, I even printed a bunch of them, but once I saw where it headed and mind you, it was way less criminal in those days, I quit. And enjoyed my pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/768 "2022-06-12T19:03:50Z")
Well perhaps you should develop a better understanding of the current fiat system BEFORE you critisize BTC. You literally have 25 essays writen about BTC, but just 1 or 2 lines on the subject of the US dollar being printed out of thin air. The US dollar and how it’s managed seems to be the biggest ponzi scheme in the world, yet you only have 1 or 2 lines to write about it. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/769 "2022-06-12T19:06:39Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Well perhaps you should develop a better understanding of the current fiat system BEFORE you critisize BTC. Not at all, I do not need to understand the entire law system before I can criticize a scammer. It’s not up to me to prove any system in place. I see a few issues with WHAT YOU PROPOSE and you reply but “the current system is bad” and when I tell you that it doesn’t matter you say "you don’t understand the current system. " again, none of that matters. YOU PROPOSE A SYSTEM, I tell you I see a LOT OF ISSUES with your system so it’s better not to take a new and flawed system just ‘because’. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/770 "2022-06-12T19:07:53Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Not at all, I do not need to understand the entire law system before I can criticize a scammer. Raw BTC on it’s own, no humans saying or doing anything is not a scam. The person who says “send me 1 BTC and I send you back 2” is a scam, there is a massive difference. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/771 "2022-06-12T19:11:46Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Not at all, I do not need to understand the entire law system before I can criticize a scammer. It’s not up to me to prove any system in place. I see a few issues with WHAT YOU PROPOSE and you reply but “the current system is bad” and when I tell you that it doesn’t matter you say "you don’t understand the current system. " again, none of that matters. YOU PROPOSE A SYSTEM, I tell you I see a LOT OF ISSUES with your system so it’s better not to take a new and flawed system just ‘because’. Surely if the discussion is currency anyone involved must have a good understanding of the current fiat system right? This would put them in a position to understand why a new tamper-proof system is required. Your issue is that you don’t have any clue that there is problems within the current system which will affect your ability to understand BTC. Start from the beginning and get a good understanding of Fiat money and how it is managed. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/772 "2022-06-12T19:12:44Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Raw BTC on it’s own, no humans saying or doing anything is not a scam. Ok, if we define BTC on itself, as a test of hashing. But not as a currency. I will need to actually read the whitepaper on it to check, but as I used it before it was accepted as a means of (legal) payment. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/773 "2022-06-12T19:16:11Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > your ability to understand BTC. Everyone comprehends the flaws. It uses too much electricity, every idiot can understand it. Am I a chemist? No, do I think people should not sell drug to drug addicts ? No. Am I free to say that? Yes. lol. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/774 "2022-06-12T19:17:24Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > get a good understanding of Fiat money and how it is managed. It’s managed poorly, but better than BTC, which isn’t managed. And no, coins do not magically fix the economy but I guess “I’m not economist enough to get it”… ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/775 "2022-06-12T19:24:03Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Everyone comprehends the flaws. It uses too much electricity, every idiot can understand it. You can say that but at least that fact is there out in the open for everyone to see, nothing is being hidden. The US dollar; we have no control over it’s value, and we have no control over how much of it is available. And a world wide currency using as much electric as Argentina might be what is required to change things and stop us from being ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/776 "2022-06-12T19:26:04Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You fiat friends They are not my friends, the system could need some regulation but it’s complex as the FED isn’t government but rich people that tried to stop a collapsing economy. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > their rich friends. Well, I am sure the FED and banking systems aren’t government/charities so they don’t care about me as long as i’m not going to be any profit for them. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Banks can just create money out of thin air too, in fact that is probably the bigger part of the pie. Yes a certain percentage is made out of thin air, and linked to an economical project. You can’t just go and say “I want to have a loan of 100 000 USD, because I want to get drunk and do women.” Well, maybe the buying the alcohol is a little economy but still. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > And obviously they completely overdid it this time I can agree on this but they now have a lot of reserves, although I hope they still have them, becuasethat was a new law since 2008 to avoid having to bail out the banks over and over. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/777 "2022-06-12T19:27:06Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > They are not my friends, the system could need some regulation but it’s complex as the FED isn’t government but rich people that tried to stop a collapsing economy. Sorry to butt in…They are the ones who created the collapsing economy!! ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/778 "2022-06-12T19:27:15Z")
Could be, but I still have a lot of doubts with it, that’s why we are here enjoying each other posts. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/779 "2022-06-12T19:29:27Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > Sorry to butt in…They are the ones who created the collapsing economy!! Well, they should do better, I heard the U.S. voted in another president, maybe he will do better… We will have to wait and see. And if you are doubting their intentions, feel free to invest in a very insecure system. I do nto say it might not work from some individuals, I say it’s not a ‘tool for the general people’. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/780 "2022-06-12T19:33:47Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > 1 USD coin equals one Satoshi. Can you scroll back up and tell me who printed more? Actually $1 = 0.0000360518 BTC [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=38) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=40)