# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/61 "2022-02-03T17:57:10Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Its common knowledge at this point that what bitcoin promises did not come true You are really good at just hammering out empty statements like that but nothing to back any of them up. What promises did not come true? The fact that you don’t even give an example and state it’s “common knowledge” shows plainly that you have none. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Its a gambling token at this point and everything surrounding it is in fact a high stakes gambling, with invested people who have a lot manipulating it. It is not really hard to see. That is a pure assumption you fail yet again to back up. You can’t make heads or tails of what is actually going on, so everyone else has to be equally clueless, hence it’s gambling. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > But you have to not have emotional baggage completely obstructing the acceptance of a fact. Which is a mechanism known also to exist. You presented ZERO facts so far. You just utter believes and assumptions. Even if I had “emotional baggage”, there is nothing you said it could have “obstructed” in the first place. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I used to gamble and seen nothing wrong with it, but when I stopped I saw the ugly side of it. So you lacked the capabilities to see the very obvious problem with gambling, but now you feel qualified to judge what constitutes gambling and what doesn’t. Tell me, did you understand WHY gambling with money you don’t want to lose is bad? Or did you just accept that it is bad because you saw the consequences of your actions? > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You would have to move away yourself from some things to actually stand aside and see it from all sides. I’m capable of that. I highly doubt you are. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/62 "2022-02-03T17:59:54Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > My intention was to explain that behavior. Nothing that isnt true. And my point holds. I agree that people addicted have a behavior that prevents them from realizing that addiction. Does not mean that calling them addicted helps in any way the discussion. Does not mean that calling them addicted is not an insult. It is one. Saying that what they say is wrong _because they are addicted_ is a personal attack. They can be addicted and still make a correct argument. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > That is a pure assumption you fail yet again to back up. You can’t make heads or tails of what is actually going on, so everyone else has to be equally clueless, hence it’s gambling. But BTC IS a gambling token. it does not replace money because it is worse than money in most cases. It does not provide anything more, and its existence requires a lot of power to maintain. The reason it goes high or down is merely speculation. There is no production of value associated with BTC. So its only value is the one driven by speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/63 "2022-02-03T18:20:27Z")
Actually the last decrease in January happened around the time the hacking of their networks occurred and it went even lower after it was published in media outlets that their price tanked due to the hack. One was an instance of theft and the other was a reaction to fear. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/64 "2022-02-03T19:11:02Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > But BTC IS a gambling token. 🙄 > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > it does not replace money because it is worse than money in most cases. Yes, it’s bad for everyday use because it’s too volatile. In what other ways is it worse? > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It does not provide anything more Wrong, because it’s more than money, it’s a monetary network that has properties no other monetary network had until Bitcoin: instant (with Lightning) global settlement, extremely low fees (with Lightning) permission-less, trust-less (no middleman), open source, censorship resistant, irreversible transactions. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > and its existence requires a lot of power to maintain. Yes, and if that use of power is justified depends on if you see value in Bitcoin or not. If you think it’s stupid anyway then clearly it’s all a waste. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The reason it goes high or down is merely speculation. Yes, like with virtually everything that gets traded on markets. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > There is no production of value associated with BTC. Yes there is, it’s the biggest decentralized monetary network in the world. It is replicated and validated by tens of thousands of physical nodes and it can transport value instantly across the globe. For some reason you only see the asset. It’s not about the asset. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > So its only value is the one driven by speculation. We already had that > [@Arumi\_Liz](#): > > Actually the last decrease in January happened around the time the hacking of their networks occurred and it went even lower after it was published in media outlets that their price tanked due to the hack. One was an instance of theft and the other was a reaction to fear. Oh please elaborate what exactly got hacked. I can’t wait figuring out what the hell you are talking about 🍿 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/65 "2022-02-03T19:19:33Z")
One thing is sure for me, when I see it all without being invested in it, its pretty entertaining. Call me filthy no-coiner, I am having fun anyway. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/66 "2022-02-03T19:22:38Z")
> **[Crypto scammers took a record $14 billion in 2021](https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/crypto-scammers-took-record-14-billion-2021-rcna11192)** > > Scammers around the world took home a record $14 billion in cryptocurrency in 2021, thanks in large part to the rise of DeFi. This is the last time I service you for free. Do your own research or you will ignorantly have opposition. I always speak from a place of education. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/67 "2022-02-03T19:26:07Z")
Ah some Defi ■■■■. Assumed you where talking about Bitcoin. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/68 "2022-02-03T19:31:20Z")
Yea, but it’s built off of bitcoin and the prices of bitcoin went down the same month that hack occurred. Bitcoin isn’t really decentralized considering when their prices dropped, so many other coins dropped in value in tandem. ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/69 "2022-02-03T19:37:03Z")
> **[Crypto.com admits over $30 million stolen by hackers](https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/20/22892958/crypto-com-exchange-hack-bitcoin-ethereum-security)** > > It’s the first time the company has released details of the funds stolen ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/70 "2022-02-03T19:46:05Z")
> [@Arumi\_Liz](#): > > Yea, but it’s built off of bitcoin and the prices of bitcoin went down the same month that hack occurred. It has absolutely nothing to do with Bitcoin. That is one of many centralized exchanges that happens to trade Bitcoin amongst many other things. > [@Arumi\_Liz](#): > > Bitcoin isn’t really decentralized considering when their prices dropped, so many other coins dropped in value in tandem. What does the price of Bitcoin has to do with it being decentralized or not? ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/71 "2022-02-03T19:46:08Z")
Also when the price of bitcoin fell in 2021 of May, that was due to China banning banks and payment firms from using cruptocurrencies ---
**Author:** ![Arumi\_Liz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arumi_liz/32/276823_2.png) [@Arumi\_Liz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arumi_Liz)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/72 "2022-02-03T19:46:58Z")
If the largest coin suffers a loss and nearly the rest follow in tandem, including the less than penny ones, it shows they’re all depending on bitcoin. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/73 "2022-02-03T19:47:15Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Yes, it’s bad for everyday use because it’s too volatile. In what other ways is it worse? There are other things ( reliance on internet, delay of transactions, lack of administration so if you are stolen then there is no recourse, etc. ) but this in itself is enough to make it not worth using. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Yes, and if that use of power is justified depends on if you see value in Bitcoin or not. If you think it’s stupid anyway then clearly it’s all a waste. That’s a circular argument. The marginal value of BTC is the value of the computations required to find the next one. That’s its value on the primary market. On the secondary market, it’s value is above the marginal cost when people believe they should invest, and below when they believe they should not. So the market value is justified by the marginal cost - not the other way around. If you want to trade BTC, then it must at a price above the marginal cost. But if the price is below the marginal cost, then the miner which are needed to make the chain work, stop mining and therefore the whole thing crumbles. Typically if the price of electricity makes it not worth . or if the price of servers increases. It typically makes it possible for people to wait such a moment to start attacking the system. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Yes there is, it’s the biggest decentralized monetary network in the world. It is replicated and validated by tens of thousands of physical nodes and it can transport value instantly across the globe. This is not value. This is not a service of any use. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/74 "2022-02-03T20:09:36Z")
> [@Arumi\_Liz](#): > > If the largest coin suffers a loss and nearly the rest follow in tandem, including the less than penny ones, it shows they’re all depending on bitcoin Yes, because the Bitcoin halfing cycle completely dominates the narrative of the crypto space. Most of those coins don’t actually do anything. The ones that do are not that dependent on the Bitcoin price. The whole market had sell-offs on the two dates you mentioned, not just crypto. Nothing of this has anything to do with decentralization. Dezentralization is the amount of nodes that make up the network and the fact that no central authority is in charge of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with price. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/75 "2022-02-03T20:50:44Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > This is not value. This is not a service of any use. Ok, if you say so ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/76 "2022-02-03T20:54:51Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Ok, if you say so It’s not if I say so. Until you prove it is better than money, then it is worse. anecdotal better is the same as worse. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/77 "2022-02-03T20:58:29Z")
It sounded very absolute, like you wouldn’t even consider someone actually having a use for it. So I don’t know why I should waste my time presenting a valid use case. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/78 "2022-02-03T21:01:04Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > That is one of many centralized exchanges that happens to trade Bitcoin amongst many other things. Most people use an exchange to keep their wallets, it’s actually the first thing people find on google when looking for bitcoin. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/8/9/6891084c16c036979b6461a8dec306419ccbffcc.png) So, besides cutting out the middle man, will there be lots of cancer tissue -originating from “clean coal” pollution- cut out of the Kazakh people that don’t benefit much of the whole mining? Bitcoin (and related scam products) will always be made in large farms in countries with the lowest price of electricity. In Iran they have issues with their power grid thanks to the mining. Why does the poorest population has to suffer so much? And if it’s widely adopted, how much more do Bitcoin (and related scam products) fanatics plan to abuse those populations? ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/79 "2022-02-03T21:02:19Z")
That sounds horrible. I sold ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/80 "2022-02-03T21:02:37Z")
> [@Aedaxus](#): > > Why does the poorest population has to suffer so much? Fat cats dont care about things like that. If they say they do, look at what they drive every day to work what is their actual energy footprint. They can do all those things, so they do them. If you would grab their hand on the street and ask “why did you take plane instead of teleconferencing to another continent”, security guy would treat you as agressor. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=5)