# The Rise and Fall in Bitcoin Value **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290 "2022-01-18T13:41:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 95
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1914 "2022-11-23T16:00:58Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > That’s exactly what Karak is suggesting, that crypto will replace fiat. Bitcoin could be a contender for the worlds reserve currency, that is what the “BTC fanatics” have discussed. Currently the worlds reserve is the US dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1915 "2022-11-23T16:07:42Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Blockchain is inferior tech though, the only benefit it currently has is that as virtual assets they are outside most laws so people can bypass checks, bypass ID requirement and bypass most regulations. Currently exchanges need to see ID for anyone who is exchanging their crypto for fiat otherwise it’s not happening. So good luck to anyone trying to get cash from stolen crypto. > **[Crypto Identity Verification: Why is Identity Verification Important?](https://www.gbg.com/en/blog/why-is-identity-verification-important-for-crypto-companies/)** > > Identity verification is helping crypto exchanges and other crypto companies to ensure compliance with AML and KYC regulation. Find out how. In case you didn’t read; “Today, cryptocurrencies are coming under increasing regulation. That means that all organisations that allow consumers and organisations to buy and sell cryptocurrencies must comply with several [Anti-Money Laundering (AML)](https://www.gbgplc.com/en/anti-money-laundering-prevention/) and [Know Your Customer (KYC)](https://www.gbgplc.com/en/know-your-customer-checks/) regulations. In short, this means that cryptocurrency exchanges and other crypto companies must quickly adapt.” ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1917 "2022-11-23T16:44:58Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > FATF aren’t just suggestions. Yes they are > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > To be safe to use every user of crypto needs to be identified. It’s weird that you complain about privacy but you want an accounting ledger that is fully open and viewable by the public. Very strong user privacy is achieved on L2/3. Privacy is a right and we should not give it up for criminals who will just find other means to accomplish their goals. By giving up privacy we make us even more vulnerable to criminals. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > No, it really isn’t. Yes it is > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Financial sanctions are highly effective though, so why would a country give up their ability to engage in them? That’s the wrong question. The right question is why would a country expose itself to the possibility of such sanctions. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Which you know for a fact many countries would try to achieve. And they’d all be competing with each other ramping up hashing power to attack and counter attack. Again, I think it’s completely lost to you that if multiple countries will try to compete for more hash power it will decentralize the hash power. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Possibly, but crypto still wouldn’t fix that, again for the above issues. There is no neutral digital money that can be transacted globally at the speed of light besides Bitcoin. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > With ever increasing amounts of energy being poured into it. I hope so > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > There’s already a way to deal with it, don’t use crypto. Yeah you can just forfeit your property rights and hope the bank doesn’t freeze your account if you suddenly on the wrong side of politics. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > I’d make a concession like that if I could see any conceivable future where major nations would commit economic suicide by giving up their national financial controls in favour of an incredibly slow, incredibly costly meme tech. No one said that they will give up their currency, but it will have to compete with a market of neutral currencies like Bitcoin and tech stock like crap like crypto if that’s still around. It will not be as easy to debase their own currency if people have the freedom to store their wealth easily in a fixed supply currency. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s not an investment, it’s a scam. I’ve said this multiple times. I mean you can say it as many times as you want, it will still be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 6:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1918 "2022-11-23T18:06:12Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I mean you can say it as many times as you want, it will still be wrong. I mean you can say it as many times as you want, it’s still right. > [@Aaron](#): > > Show me the evidence that BTC is a scam and ponzi then. Why ? So you bury your head in the sand again ? I already proved you. The fact you can’t understand the proof does not talk about the proof. It talks about you. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1920 "2022-11-23T18:30:44Z")
> [@stefnia\_Freir](#): > > Why ? So you bury your head in the sand again ? > I already proved you. The fact you can’t understand the proof does not talk about the proof. It talks about you. Bury my head in the sand? I’m here to learn as well as converse about what I already know. If you feel you have something for me to learn provide evidence which I can revise and verify, Check your ego at the entrance before you come in, you’ve made lots of claims which I tried to verify but could not. You expect people who have revised this subject for many years to suddenly disbelieve what they know and agree with you, You can’t bully your opinion onto others, You start with your theory, then you provide evidence and then the logic of the theory and evidence is discussed. You can’t provide evidence because none exists and BTC does exactly what it says on the tin. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1921 "2022-11-23T18:39:52Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > Crypto fanatics are so funny. Every conversation ends up the same way “Everyone is wrong unless they think crypto is amazing”. It’ll never achieve mainstream adoption. It’ll reach a peak, crash out and end up as a points system for pedos. Yeah, just throw in some casual pedo association, great way of discussing, really shows intellectual honesty on your part. Just a guess, but maybe the reason why this conversation always end the same way is you. You seem to be very angry about something you are not even involved in. Maybe do some soul searching what the real root of your problem is. calm down miner ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1922 "2022-11-23T18:45:06Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You seem to be very angry about something you are not even involved in. Maybe do some soul searching what the real root of your problem is. I think he purchased an amount of BTC and then found investing is not as easy as he thought, the value went down and he is angry for losing money. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1924 "2022-11-23T18:50:46Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s pretty much a religion to people like you, you’ve been sold an unrealistic and unattainable dream and handed some really crappy tech and told that’s the start of it. To me it’s a method of completing a private transaction, Also I used to get paid in BTC for renting the processing power of my GPU’s, which I would subsequently use for a private transaction. I’ve actually not purchased BTC as an investment I have purchased gaming GPU’s so my investment was in computers which would help me earn BTC. Also I like BTC for it’s rigid set of rules that nobody can bypass. So no it’s not a religion, it’s just an intelligent idea. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1926 "2022-11-23T19:01:19Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It’s pretty much a religion to people like you, you’ve been sold an unrealistic and unattainable dream and handed some really crappy tech and told that’s the start of it. Yeah I pray to satoshi every night to finally ignite the moon rocket. Lol, stay mad you clown ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1927 "2022-11-23T19:02:44Z")
> [@Aaron](#): > > You can’t provide evidence because none exists and BTC does exactly what it says on the tin. That’s the definition of burying your head in the sand. You again are not adressing any of the points I made, rather talk about me. All it talks about, is your inability to actually understand the issue. Like when you claimed that buying anything would be a ponzi, since it’s a personal investment. You are so off topic your opinions are just that : useless words without a link to the topic being discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1928 "2022-11-23T19:03:34Z")
Whatever you say buddy. ---
**Author:** ![stefnia\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/stefnia_freir/32/390048_2.png) [@stefnia\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/stefnia_Freir)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1929 "2022-11-23T19:04:03Z")
Bury yourself in the sand again. I brought FACTS and you kept going off topic then ask “prove me I am wrong”. I did . You just can’t handle the truth ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1930 "2022-11-23T19:04:39Z")
Keep bullying your narrative onto others. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1931 "2022-11-23T19:05:19Z")
No, you brought CLAIMS which are not backed up by any fact whatsoever. Why do you seem irritated and angry over a total stranger not agreeing with your narrative? Nobody needs you to tell them what’s what with regard to BTC they are capable of assessing something themselves. So thanks but no thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1932 "2022-11-23T19:14:48Z")
I really don’t believe that you can use bitcoin for illegal transactions. It leaves you way more exposed to subsequent investigations than using bags full of cash. Unless you want to just leave the bitcoin in your wallet forever until The Law forgets about the crimes they are investigating. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1934 "2022-11-23T19:25:52Z")
Base layer yes. Lightning network adds a lot of privacy and something like a fedimint community bank the idea is to have a big anonymity set, so even if the payment hits the Lightning network it isn’t clear where it is going. I’m not sure what is wrong with people if they suggest we should sacrifice our privacy because potentially that also helps criminals. Lack of privacy helps criminals as well. If they get hold of financial data they know exactly where there is something to get, and accumulated date will eventually always leek. It’s not even theoretical anymore that governments, even democratically elected ones, will abuse their power over financial services to silence their opposition. I would say that privacy and censorship resistant money is absolutely necessary for a functioning democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1935 "2022-11-23T19:31:20Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > unregulated exchanges to trade one crypto for another Can you tell me the name of an unregulated exchange? If your claims were true you should be able to reel off names of these unregulated exchanges. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1936 "2022-11-23T19:31:39Z")
When was the last functioning democracy? 400 BC in Athens? ---
**Author:** ![Aaron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaron/32/379788_2.png) [@Aaron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaron)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1938 "2022-11-23T19:36:12Z")
As I mentioned earlier I’m here to learn, I tried to find an unregulated exchange so I could somewhat verify your claims but I could not find one. So currently your claims are unverified. I’ll show yo what I did find though; > **[Unregulated crypto exchanges are looking like a 'dying breed,' says...](https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/11/15/unregulated-crypto-exchanges-look-like-a-dying-breed-investment-firm.html)** > > Mark Carnegie of MHC Digital Group discusses the fallout from FTX's bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290/1939 "2022-11-23T20:01:14Z")
Apparently regulation doesn’t prevent this centralized exchanges from blowing up and stealing all their customer funds. It’s also worth noting that in at least one of this cases, all the customer data including their balances was made public. KYC is the crime. People will repeatedly learn that over the next decades until enough damage has been done and enough politicians have been caught in the wake of this leeks so even they get that privacy is a necessity human right. Meanwhile I just try to stay out of the victim set, who all have to suffer identity theft and extortion for us all to receive this revelation. But I have a feeling, @Elizabet_Forgrave and @stefnia_Freir are volunteering and have a first row seat. Very compliant. Thank you for your sacrifices. (just in case this isn’t obvious to the economists among you, this problem goes far beyond crypto exchanges) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=94) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-rise-and-fall-in-bitcoin-value/346290.md?page=96)