# The skillpoint cap is way too high (New player retention/Quality of life) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392 "2019-08-24T15:09:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/279 "2019-08-26T11:00:16Z")
Expecting the newbies to pay more than market price for structure and fuel, then locking them out from it, kicking people from Corp, and raising the tax to 100% isn’t you carrying them, it’s you blatantly exploiting them. Also I love how you’ve presented zero.evidemce to defend any of the other points and instead are trying to appeal to emotion here, I even have you the opportunity to not dig yourself deeper by pretending it was other people’s fault… But you do you and embarrass yourself ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/280 "2019-08-26T11:00:58Z")
> [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Stop generalising people into an insulting generic group. Stop pretending like we dont know what you mean by “a specific demographic that is the one of the last bastion in the industry” WE both know you intended the egotistical kids who desire complexity and pvp-related abuse. And we can confirm that with your resistance to change the game in any way that effects that specific player audience. Please do not insult my intelligence or telepathic abilities like that. You are not fooling anyone. > [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](#): > > Not because we’re mythical egotistical bad guys preying on new players, but because your suggestions are made without any substance and there is no thought behind how they may be applied to Eve, and any negatives consequences of doing so. Ok, Glad we agree eve does not need its long duration training, and stupid levels of complexity. (that was sarcasm btw). **In the end, my statement ends this debate. You are a minority, the flood gates are overfilling with people. Your opinions, your positions mean nothing as long as that 16,000 sits there waiting and wanting to play this game.** All of you, Literally every last one of you would be replaced in a month. That is how meaningless your positions are. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/281 "2019-08-26T11:02:02Z")
> [@Tanaka\_Seiko](#): > > As a “kind of” veteran player, I would be reall pissed about alle the time I spent in skills and time if its given away “for free” (\<- easier faster whatever) now. > > And well I do not need all ships or all skills, I just need some. So just leave it as it is. You will get over it. > [@Tanaka\_Seiko](#): > > EVE is about specialization and about choosing the right skills / ship / modules / whatever for the job And even with faster training rates and reducing the training time from 25 years down to 5, it will still be that way. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/282 "2019-08-26T11:02:13Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > It requires to much time, which makes the space between targets to large. What? It takes 10 secs to enter Supercruise and if you are travelling insystem about as long to go from a to b as in EvE? Unless you are in a ludicrously large system like Alpha/Proxima. And going the .22 LY to Hutton is far far far from the norm. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Eve’s movement is focused around objects. Stations, gates, Planets they all have a point of potential interaction from players. This is what is lose in ED. In what way? These objects or their analogues all exist in Elite. While there are no Gates, there are Nav Points, Stations, Mining Sites, Conflict Zones, and Surface Sites. And everyone enters a system for the same place, the Primary Star. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaka\_Seiko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tanaka_seiko/32/439667_2.png) [@Tanaka\_Seiko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tanaka_Seiko)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/283 "2019-08-26T11:06:51Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > > As a “kind of” veteran player, I would be reall pissed about alle the time I spent in skills and time if its given away “for free” (\<- easier faster whatever) now. > > > > And well I do not need all ships or all skills, I just need some. So just leave it as it is. > > You will get over it. Thats not a strong argument for doing it 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/284 "2019-08-26T11:07:14Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > In the end, **in my opinion** , my statement ends this debate. You are a minority, the flood gates are overfilling with people. Your opinions, your positions mean nothing as long as that 16,000 sits there waiting and wanting to play this game. My brittle soul feel offended by your post. Here I fixed it for you… ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/285 "2019-08-26T11:07:43Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > My brittle soul feel offended by your post. Here I fixed it for you… How kind of you, thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/287 "2019-08-26T11:08:05Z")
No worries. Always here to help and kill newbies in T1 frigs. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/288 "2019-08-26T11:09:49Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > who’s only named work is an MMO that lasted less than 2 years Are you talking about EAB? (btw, this died because of EA not other reasons, it was on track to be the wow of its time). It’s not the only MMO iv worked on. Iv also worked on two others, which are currently still active and populated (actually, they are well known). ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/289 "2019-08-26T11:10:00Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Posting some random paragraphs from 2006 are not sources for talking about gaming today. Some of his post is from this article: [Retention Rate, Churn and Duration - Gamesbrief](https://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/11/retention-rate-churn-and-duration/) And as usual he picks out one sentence without understanding or comprehending the rest of the article, which directly contradicts his own points. Oh well, can’t expect much from him really. There are literally no games at all with 80-90% retention rates, unless you are picking the ‘retention between account creation and character creation’ period (meaning less than Day 1 retention). ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/290 "2019-08-26T11:10:08Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Stop pretending like we dont know what you mean by “a specific demographic that is the one of the last bastion in the industry” Well you obviously don’t, others probably will. > WE both know you intended the egotistical kids who desire complexity and pvp-related abuse. I intended what? > And we can confirm that with your resistance to change the game in any way that effects that specific player audience. By that specific player audience do you mean the people that inflict PvP on those doing PvE? I’m their prey, your suggested changes affect EVERYBODY, not just those you have a hardon for. > Please do not insult my intelligence That would require you to have some in the first place. > or telepathic abilities like that. More believable than the claims of being a games developer. > You are not fooling anyone. I wasn’t trying to. > Ok, Glad we agree eve does not need its long duration training, and stupid levels of complexity. (that was sarcasm btw). No it wasn’t, that’s you inflicting your opinion on me. Sarcasm would be you agreeing with me. > In the end, my statement ends this debate. You wish. > You are a minority Which minority is that? ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/291 "2019-08-26T11:11:19Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > There are literally no games at all with 80-90% retention rates Yes there is. There are many, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/292 "2019-08-26T11:12:38Z")
Sources? Your credibility here is below zero. So produce some actual sources ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/293 "2019-08-26T11:12:59Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > It’s not the only MMO iv worked on. Iv also worked on two others, which are currently still active and populated (actually, they are well known). Are you saying their success is because of your effort? Cause, your “Holier than thou” attitude, seems to suggest that maybe you think a smidgen too highly of yourself. Man, I’d hate to be your coworker. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/294 "2019-08-26T11:13:39Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > Man, I’d hate to be your coworker. Could be worse, could actually be him. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/295 "2019-08-26T11:16:10Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Sources? Your credibility here is below zero. So produce some actual sources Do you think that i care about your opinion of me, or how you think my credibility is scored? hey btw, did you see local is going to wormhole space? Yet another one of my idea’s ccp is doing. It seems i do have credibility. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/c/5c9dc444e06f6b45d5d7ef829a3627e2d5b089f4.jpeg) The above is a graph of the retention rates of players for the respected mmo’s. As you can see, all of these mmos are over 60%. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/296 "2019-08-26T11:17:32Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > hey btw, did you see local is going to wormhole space? Yet another one of my idea’s ccp is doing. It seems i do have credibility. Omg, do you believe CCP are implementing anything based on your feedback alone? 🤣 You truly are lost. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/297 "2019-08-26T11:17:42Z")
Yet again you fail to understand what a source is. A source is not you posting some graph which can’t even label both axes, has no clear title or context. Its you providing a link to a peer reviewed or verifiable fact. Also a source would match your claim of over 90%. Which your own evidence shows you lied about. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/298 "2019-08-26T11:19:45Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Yet again you fail to understand what a source is. A source is not you posting some graph which can’t even label both axes, has no clear title or context. > Its you providing a link to a peer reviewed or verifiable fact. You have the evidence you need. Im not interested in your childish games after the evidence is presented where you say “oh its from so and so! it cant be valid”. Light years a head of you, in the end your wrong. Spend 10 minutes of your pathetic life pushing the google button, you will get your answers. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2019, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/299 "2019-08-26T11:19:49Z")
I wonder… We could base popularity of MMOs on how many radio stations they have 🙂 As these cost money to keep up, and are community funded… Just thinking. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392.md?page=11)