# The skillpoint cap is way too high (New player retention/Quality of life) **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392 "2019-08-24T15:09:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elzon1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elzon1/32/255919_2.png) [@Elzon1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elzon1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/78 "2019-08-25T09:03:05Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Thats why skills go from 1 to 5 > > You think they need to explore HACs and Carriers to see if they want them? Well, new players are Alpha clones and not Omega right off the bat usually so they wouldn’t be in a position to fly HACs or Carriers/Capitals. New Players need to be able to quickly explore mining, pve, exploration, trading, industry, and pvp to find out what it is they enjoy the most. Also, in order to really retain new players they really need to be useful to corporations/alliances and so that means they should at least be able to fly cruisers/battlecruisers, logistics, and other tech1 semi-specialized ships (ecm, webbing, neuting, etc.). New players shouldn’t be flying ship classes above battleships or anything tech2 of course as that’s Omega territory. New players need to be brought up to a state of semi-usefullness to corporations/alliances as soon as possible so they can be taken in and shown what EVE is all about by more experienced players. And as Hilmar showed this really needs to happen within the first 7 days of creating a new character so as to increase new player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/79 "2019-08-25T09:03:32Z")
> [@Compo](#): > > Then come the social paths Nice! ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/80 "2019-08-25T09:05:31Z")
> [@Elzon1](#): > > Sometimes becoming proficient in a new can take well over a month to accomplish and that’s quite a long time for most people. EvE is not the right game for them. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/81 "2019-08-25T09:06:28Z")
> [@Elzon1](#): > > Skill points certainly aren’t everything, but reducing the overall training time will most certainly help to make the game more enjoyable and **increase the retention of new players**. Assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/82 "2019-08-25T09:08:45Z")
What needs to happen also, is the toxicity out of rookie help, and the bittervets who tell people to quit the game. we don’t need that happening. And with vets mostly living in null, and ccp planning on making it harder for null and easier on the new players, nullsec players are the last ones who should be trying to encourage new players to go straight to nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Elzon1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elzon1/32/255919_2.png) [@Elzon1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elzon1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/83 "2019-08-25T09:18:31Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > > Skill points certainly aren’t everything, but reducing the overall training time will most certainly help to make the game more enjoyable and **increase the retention of new players**. > > Assumption. This is no assumption. Why do you think new players are given cerebral accelerators right off the bat? It’s because CCP recognized they needed faster training to help increase retention. It’s still not enough though as new players need to be brought up much faster than they currently are. CCP could increase the effectiveness of new player cerebral accelerators, but lowering the skill cap and shrinking training times for all players helps new and old players alike. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/84 "2019-08-25T09:21:02Z")
> [@Elzon1](#): > > This is no assumption. Why do you think new players are given cerebral accelerators right off the bat? It’s because CCP recognized they needed faster training to help increase retention. It’s still not enough though as new players need to be brought up much faster than they currently are. > > CCP could increase the effectiveness of new player cerebral accelerators, but lowering the skill cap and shrinking training times for all players helps new and old players alike. Show me the numbers. Nobody from CCP has actually shown that injecting skills increases retention. Nobody! ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/85 "2019-08-25T09:22:35Z")
I get your point, but I just dont think treating them like new starts in work is going to keep them that interested if they are channeled towards doing the work no one in the corp wants to do. But then, I dont seem to look at EvE the way most people do either. If the situation exists (Which Im giving to you here as I dont agree) that skilling into anything useful takes too long, then give the NPE a base line of 3 in everything and split 4 and 5 into new levels instead. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/86 "2019-08-25T09:52:51Z")
You can actually try almost everything in Eve with just a few hours of skill-training. Sure, you won’t be the best at it, but you can see if activity x is something you would like to do. Because all skills are capped at 5, a new player can become just as effective as a veteran in a single activity relatively quickly as there is a limited number of skills that apply to each activity. People stare too much at the total number of skills and how long it takes to get there. Try looking at how long it takes to do activity x. It’s surprisingly short time to have all skills to 5 that affect that activity. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/88 "2019-08-25T10:42:14Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Show me the numbers. Nobody from CCP has actually shown that injecting skills increases retention. Nobody! Well, CCP certainly hasn’t shown that it doesn’t. However they are definitely adding lot’s of options for new players to skill up quicker. ---
**Author:** ![Elzon1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elzon1/32/255919_2.png) [@Elzon1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elzon1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/89 "2019-08-25T10:51:00Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > > This is no assumption. Why do you think new players are given cerebral accelerators right off the bat? It’s because CCP recognized they needed faster training to help increase retention. It’s still not enough though as new players need to be brought up much faster than they currently are. > > > > CCP could increase the effectiveness of new player cerebral accelerators, but lowering the skill cap and shrinking training times for all players helps new and old players alike. > > Show me the numbers. Nobody from CCP has actually shown that injecting skills increases retention. Nobody! While no hard numbers have been published yet as to what’s working and what’s not as to increasing player retention getting new players into better ships/modules with greater variety of activity should help at least somewhat. CCP is currently experimenting with various ways of attracting new players and increasing retention and speeding up training time is most certainly one of them. Here is one example: [SKILLPOINTS, CASH & NEW PLAYERS – AN UPDATE](https://www.eveonline.com/article/ptrtk0/skillpoints-cash-and-new-players-an-update) ---
**Author:** ![Verlyn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/verlyn/32/435163_2.png) [@Verlyn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Verlyn)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/90 "2019-08-25T10:54:32Z")
> [@Elzon1](#): > > I mean really 20+ years to fly all ships and utilize all features in EVE to their maximum potential? > > I’ve been with EVE Online for almost an entire decade (just a few days left) and sure I’m used to the time grind that is the skill system in EVE, but what do newcomers think? > > I’m sure if they saw the 20+ year skill cap most would think it was absurd. I remember just how long it took to get into the next tier ship and use the next teir weapons/mods. The grind is absurdly horrible for both veterans and newcomers alike. Just think how many months it can take for newcomers to play with us in any competitive sense without spending a ton of extra money on skill injectors. Don’t you think that the extremely slow progression that is the skill system turns people away from the game? > > It’s high time that CCP got around to fixing this terrible part of the game. CCP already has in place what it needs to fix this problem in a fair and equitable manner. Lets say we lower the skill cap from 20 years down to 10 years. This would effectively half the training time for all skills. Long time players can easily be reimbursed their time investment in the form of skillpoints. And of course we should be able to use skill extractors so we can sell those skillpoints to others or we can use the injectors on other accounts we have. In this example the 10 year cap will be enforced in that when a new skill is introduced it compresses the rest of the skill tree so as to prevent the cap from being breached. Of course we would get a few unallocated skillpoints due to the adjustment. > > Think about the easier time newcomers will have progressing in the game due to such a change. And of course vets get their skillpoints back so they can be sold off in terms of skill injectors. > > If we can save newcomers from the terrible slow progression EVE currently has then perhaps that would help them to stay and play with the rest of us. And veterans don’t lose out on anything considering we would get our skill points reimbursed for us to train up other skills or sell them off to others. > > Newcomers would have a more positive view of EVE and they may stay longer. And every new subscription means more development money to improve things for all players. > > The 10 years example is still a bit too absurd, but it’s a starting point. > > Let’s add some more positive chaos to this “Chaos Era” Role Specialization. This is how Newcomers should see Eve. Not the max SP. You’re stupid. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/91 "2019-08-25T10:55:09Z")
Except you’re forgetting there’s lot’s of other skills needing to be trained besides those for a specific Career, such as general ship fitting and support skills… Also some career choices may require training skills in another career just to be competent in the first career choice. Like Tech 2 Production. To be competent in that career requires cross training into a few other careers. ---
**Author:** ![Elzon1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elzon1/32/255919_2.png) [@Elzon1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elzon1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/94 "2019-08-25T11:10:17Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > I get your point, but I just dont think treating them like new starts in work is going to keep them that interested if they are channeled towards doing the work no one in the corp wants to do. It’s up to the corporations to get the new players doing something they like while being useful to the corp. And I’m sure CCP can help steer new players towards corporations with higher retention rates. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If the situation exists (Which Im giving to you here as I dont agree) that skilling into anything useful takes too long, then give the NPE a base line of 3 in everything and split 4 and 5 into new levels instead. I’m more in the thought process of improving EVE as a whole and not just the NPE. By lowering the SP cap and shrinking training times as a result will speed things up for new and old players alike. Also, the reduced SP cap should result in current players being reimbursed with SP for us to either use ourselves, make injectors to sell for isk, or make injectors to help out newer players in their respective corporations. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/95 "2019-08-25T11:16:05Z")
Wouldnt it adversely affect extractor/injector sales to affect the market this way and encourage people out of making the most out of the easier to fly craft? I mean if thats the objective, should we consider a far harsher Tiercide? > [@Elzon1](#): > > By lowering the SP cap and shrinking training times as a result will speed things up for new and old players alike Im not sure quicker gratification will lead to retention. I fear the opposite would be true. But thats just my thoughts on the matter. I recently started an Alpha and trained all his skills that were available to him to 3 and it didnt seem to take that long really. ---
**Author:** ![Elzon1](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elzon1/32/255919_2.png) [@Elzon1](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elzon1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/96 "2019-08-25T11:25:04Z")
> [@Verlyn](#): > > Role Specialization. > > This is how Newcomers should see Eve. > > Not the max SP. > > You’re stupid. New players shouldn’t be forced to specialize right off the bat and the best way to retain new players is to get them into corporations. However, in order for most corporations to see new players as useful and not a burden is for the new players to be able to fly a variety of half way decent ships before coming to the corporation. According to Hilmar this really needs to happen within the first 7 days of a new character’s creation. This requires a rather dramatic speed increase in training for new players. By reducing the SP cap and shrinking training times it will result in faster skills for new and old players alike. This will prevent veteran players such as myself from being too salty about the shear speed at which new players will be in useful ships. Also, as a result of reducing the SP cap older players can be reimbursed with skill points to use themselves or used to make skill injectors towards selling or helping new players. > [@Verlyn](#): > > You’re stupid. Quit it with the ad hominem attacks as it makes the community look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/98 "2019-08-25T11:46:01Z")
Anything you do in-game that requires a ship will benefit from the general skills that affect EVERY ship. The reasoning for simplifying skill-training is to allow new players to try different activities faster. I’m having difficulties stretching that to stuff like T2-production, capitals, etc. They are all things that are build upon the game basics that you can try out quickly. If someone doesn’t like manufacturing, how is T2-production so different that they just have to get to try that too? The “think of the newbies” -defence doesn’t really stack up for everything. ---
**Author:** ![ExcalibursTemplar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/excaliburstemplar/32/383837_2.png) [@ExcalibursTemplar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ExcalibursTemplar)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/100 "2019-08-25T12:04:38Z")
> [@Do\_Little](#): > > Why would anyone want level 5 mastery for every ship in the game? Why wouldn’t you, It’s the only reason i carry on playing. CCP managed to ■■■■ over everything i love in the game. My OCD is strong though so that keeps me around. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/101 "2019-08-25T12:18:45Z")
General fitting skills also don’t need to be at V. Sure it’s nice but they are fine at 3 or 4. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392/109 "2019-08-25T12:33:45Z")
I’m not advocating that new players should try out everything. However I do think that skill training time could be decreased and or the amount of skill points per level could be reduced. My point is that it’s not just ship fitting and support skills, there’s a lot of other skills that need to be trained too, depending on the career choice. I used Tech 2 production as a career example because it’s a specialized career that usually involves cross training into Invention and trade. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-skillpoint-cap-is-way-too-high-new-player-retention-quality-of-life/185392.md?page=4)