# The summer has passed, but Eve has not returned to 40,000 concurent users **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853 "2019-02-22T20:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/82 "2019-02-25T14:43:25Z")
CCP will obviously look at the corps that can no longer be war decked and look at activity levels and of course their average size, if both are up then it would be a success on one level. After that it is a wait and see on how many people come back. People can still go for greater risk and put down a structure, I hope CCP looks at the impact on those players as part of this. In any case the final design of the war dec system has yet to be detailed in anyway, I am waiting for it with a certain amount of trepidation. In one sense I am not at all bothered if it stays like it is. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/83 "2019-02-25T14:55:24Z")
@Ghost_O_Mo the watchlist change was in march 2016. I’ve seen most of my friends quit when that happened. I’ve since also quit. But I kept in contact with may of the people I used to play with. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/84 "2019-02-25T15:01:49Z")
So I’m looking at eve offline, checking the first and last half of each year for average active players. 2016 - 32k/31k 2017 - 36k/31k (the 36k is from alphas before dying off) 2018 - 32k/30k So aside from a short lived jump in activity from alphas, the numbers are fairly steady (as many people have been saying the numbers leveled off). However, since December when decs were changed. Activity from the last 6months goes like this: 6m - 31k 3m - 27k 1m - 24k 2w - 23k Now everyone is right when they say it’s too early to tell for sure. But if wardecs were so god damn destructive to player retention you’d expect to see _something_ right?! And Dracvlad is right when there is more than one way to look at this. I have no arguments against saying that wardecs are destructive to a **corporation** and it’s activity. I’ve seen it happen so many times with my own eyes. And corporations are related to player retention in some ways. (social corps would have seriously helped us if they were implemented in 2013/4 when the idea first came up). But i have big doubts that wardecs had such a big effect on **player** retention. I’m inclined to believe that players quit Corp A when they are decced and join Corp B (a normal process that sorts chaf from wheat). I also believe that many players that quit at the onset of a wardec were going to leave not far down the line anyways, either from other forms of pvp or boredom because eve is just not what they expected. So far, it does appear I’m right. And it’s costing us long term players (former loyal customers) to realise it… ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/85 "2019-02-25T15:02:55Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > A good job at what ? selling ? Yes, if it was then the player base would be expanding, not shrinking or staying static. ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/86 "2019-02-25T15:29:34Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > This does NOT mean that removing them will INCREASE the player count. You need to learn logic. let’s make a child image because that’s what you need : > There are holes in a bucket. If you plug one hole, it won’t magically fill the bucket again - it will only reduce the quantity that goes to waste because of the hole. Please don’t try simplifying logic by using flawed logic, makes you look an ass. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You can keep crying as much as you want Thank you for the permission 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/87 "2019-02-25T15:35:02Z")
One thing I would like to see if the quality of the war decs now in terms of ships or things blown up compared to what there was before. If there are more actual explosions in space per war dec then we had before then those leaving because they think it reduced content will be leaving prematurely. But I have listened to people who see it as a reduction in content which is why I have suggested and continue to suggest that you are limited to five war decs without any structures per entity. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/88 "2019-02-25T16:51:10Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > you’d expect to see _something_ right?! hu ? No. Why would you ? You did not have the data about players retention loss to wardecs, why would you see an effect on something else ? ---
**Author:** ![Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghost_o_mo/32/376789_2.png) [@Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghost_O_Mo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/89 "2019-02-25T16:51:41Z")
There is still the juggernaut problem. That is this: wars cost too much for the low probability of a fight each war represents… unless you pool assets to the point that isk is meaningless. That’s why marmites existed. They were the “ride share” of war decs… an option to make them affordable. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/90 "2019-02-25T17:07:17Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You did not have the data about players retention loss to wardecs, why would you see an effect on something else ? No. No-one has numbers of player retention lost to wardecs. Not even ccp. In the csm minutes they were looking at corp activity and in the presentation at fanfest they looked at wardec activity. But what we do have is player activity for the whole game which is a good indicator for whether players are growing, shrinking or staying the same and therefore overall retention. So if wardecs were putting a massive ball and chain onto player growth (retention) it’s removal for thousands of players would have probably caused a positive shift in player activity. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/91 "2019-02-25T17:10:32Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > So if wardecs were putting a massive ball and chain onto player growth (retention) it’s removal for thousands of players would have probably caused a positive shift in player activity. “probably” . AKA “this makes no sense but that fits my opinion so I will cal that logic”. It’s not. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/92 "2019-02-25T17:21:28Z")
Can you explain why not? Because I’m not alone in this thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/93 "2019-02-25T17:34:54Z")
New players are a smallish proportion of total EVE players anyway, and those who are affected by wardecs are a subset of them. Similarly the relevant wardecs will happen some time after a beginner starts EVE, so it won’t affect their activity the entire time they play. If anything it will be skewed towards the end of their playing time. I’d expect it to be hard to measure the effect on activity of removing those wardecs - in the short(ish) term the changes in activity could be lost in background randomness. If I was doing the analysis, I’d be hoping for good data from the retention rates after 8 to 12 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/94 "2019-02-25T17:47:17Z")
Every thing you said is wrong. wardecs were not “putting a massive ball and chain onto player growth” . A correlation was observed between a wardec to an HS players corporation and the reduction of the corporation activity. THAT IS ALL. Of course the activity of players dropping means a reduction of the total activity of the players in the game. But the removal of a possible cause of the reduction in players activity is not the same thing as the addition of player activity. You are affirming that plugging a hole should increase the water in the bucket. It is just false, there is nothing more to explain. Again, maybe there was no actual causation between the wardecs and the activity loss. But saying CCP affirmed this modification would increase in a noticeable way the activity of players is just a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/95 "2019-02-25T17:54:13Z")
I agree that wars should be cheaper. 100%. I was going to war dec the Goons at one point and at 500m I went no way, was incredibly silly… ---
**Author:** ![Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ghost_o_mo/32/376789_2.png) [@Ghost\_O\_Mo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ghost_O_Mo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/96 "2019-02-25T18:07:00Z")
I think it’s likely that the drop in activity is the quitting of people who liked war. Seems logical. Warriors won’t keep logging in for the current state of war. Now we must hope that there will be a major influx of people who don’t like war now that we’ve eliminated those customers who did like it. Maybe that’s what happened? ---
**Author:** ![gnshadowninja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gnshadowninja/32/160500_2.png) [@gnshadowninja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/gnshadowninja)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/97 "2019-02-25T18:35:13Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > wardecs were not “putting a massive ball and chain onto player growth” . A correlation was observed between a wardec to an HS players corporation and the reduction of the corporation activity. THAT IS ALL. Straight from CSM minutes: > The CSM in general were surprised at how stark the numbers were and noted it was clear this mechanic was having a significant impact on player recruitment and retention. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/98 "2019-02-25T18:39:03Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > I’d expect it to be hard to measure the effect on activity of removing those wardecs What? Why? They’ve stated that they’re looking at “corporation activity”. They’ve noticed that people stop being active after being wardecced, aka “corporation activity” dropped. Measuring changes in “corporation activity” is just as easy as it was before. The intended effect of the nerf to wars was “corporation activity” not dropping due to them. The situation CCP was trying to prevent was “people stopping playing due to [reasons] which root in their respective corporation getting wardecced.” The nerf _should_ result in more people playing. The people who _would_ now get decced don’t, therefore they _should_ not be quitting anymore. Considering the massive amount of wars declared every day back then, the effects should have been clearly visible _in the second week post nerf!_ The reason for this lies in the duration of wars, which last one week at minimum, which means that, within the second week, less people would have had stopped playing, because suddenly less people would have gotten war declared upon them! ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/99 "2019-02-25T18:43:35Z")
Those people mostly quit long ago, but you’re not wrong. There is reason to believe that there are plenty of people quitting regularly due to the ongoing pussification of EVE ONLINE, which has been a reason for people quitting games since literally forever, from literally every game that went that route. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/100 "2019-02-25T18:50:27Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > But the removal of a possible cause of the reduction in players activity is not the same thing as the addition of player activity. Except that’s exactly what it is. Plugging the hole should have an effect on the rate of water/gain loss in the bucket. Why wouldn’t it? And if that wasn’t the intention, why did you even bother plugging the hole? > [@Ghost\_O\_Mo](#): > > Maybe that’s what happened? It could be, and that was the expectations of many. But so far I’ve seen none of this influx. Nor even a reduction in player leaving. It’s like we plugged a hole in the wrong bucket. ---
**Author:** ![Algarion\_Getz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algarion_getz/32/356396_2.png) [@Algarion\_Getz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algarion_Getz)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/101 "2019-02-25T18:54:27Z")
> [@Tecros\_Shtemerk](#): > > WHY ?? because CCP/PA is just crushing the motivation of many players to keep playing with merciless moneygrabbing. Cancelling the AT was the last straw. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853.md?page=6)