# The summer has passed, but Eve has not returned to 40,000 concurent users **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853 "2019-02-22T20:59:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 8:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/142 "2019-02-26T08:38:17Z")
Especially considering how people are treated and harassed by players here, it surely not make girls play. Naburi NasNaburi for example left after being harassed, even biomassed character. Its that girl you can hear voice in eve online song parodies. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/143 "2019-02-26T09:01:59Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > Essentially CCP betted that the loss of highsec PvErs would be tough but bearable and it’s turned to be fatal. That is so true and something I have noted and commented on. I blame the period when all mining ships had the tank of a wet paper bag after the destroyer DPS was buffed, this was left like that for two and a half years. It ended up removing so many casual hisec miners from the game, most of who paid for the game with RL money. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > I don’t think it’s entirely true that “not-so-expendable players were silent”. IMO “shouted down” is more accurate. One of the main reasons I post on the forums. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > The net result if the same of course: new players who would enjoy EVE, but aren’t prepared to be treated as a consumable by experienced players along the way, leave forever. And unfortunately they explain their decision process to other gamers if asked about EVE. You totally get it, a lot of older players think it is their right to be able to farm newer players easily. That destroyer buff and no change to the mining ship tanks for two and a half years is the best example of that issue. I know so many people who gave up during that period and it was masked by new people coming because of the big battles. > [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > IMO it’s not too late to change this, but the wardec change alone isn’t enough. It is a hard one, because I aimed my comments at poor balance like the destroyer buff and no tank change and poor mechanics which makes things too easy such as bumping of freighters. It is such a shame… ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/144 "2019-02-26T09:14:24Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > It ended up removing so many casual hisec miners from the game, most of who paid for the game with RL money. Another option is, that highsec mining is just boring enough to make people unsubscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/145 "2019-02-26T09:16:36Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > Another option is, that highsec mining is just boring enough to make people unsubscribe. Hisec mining would make you unsubscribe. What made them unsubscribe was being made easy kill patsies whose development in the game went backwards due to poor balance choices by CCP. They blamed CCP incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/146 "2019-02-26T09:20:02Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Hisec mining would make you unsubscribe. Exactly that. Not everyone thinks the same and plays the same. People vs individual. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/147 "2019-02-26T09:24:41Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Hisec mining wouldn’t make you unsubscribe. > > What made them unsubscribe was being made easy kill patsies whose development in the game went backwards due to poor balance choices by CCP. They blamed CCP incompetence. FTFY, cause otherwise your post made no sense. So in your and Nana’s opinion, mining is an interesting game mechanic that can compete with activities in other games? What part of mining do you actually find compelling? The fact that it can be done afk? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/148 "2019-02-26T09:26:48Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > FTFY, cause otherwise your post made no sense. That is because you are unable to understand it. > [@Maekchu](#): > > So in your and Nana’s opinion, mining is an interesting game mechanic that can compete with activities in other games? And now we have a Cathy Newman, what you are saying is… > [@Maekchu](#): > > What part of mining do you actually find compelling? Making stuff I use like carriers to do a risky venture. > [@Maekchu](#): > > The fact that it can be done afk? Salty projecting at its finest mate, leave that sort of thing to Sol, he is better at it, well that is relative… ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/149 "2019-02-26T09:30:22Z")
Nvm, think I get it… You wrote “you” as in me. Not “you” as in them (highsec miners). But how do you know that mining hasn’t resulted in loss of subs? If I find it boring, it’s possible that others do as well, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/150 "2019-02-26T09:46:37Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > Ok, personal attacks aside… you mean like this: > [@Maekchu](#): > > What part of mining do you actually find compelling? The fact that it can be done afk? You reap what you sow, you poor victim. That was the first personal attack by you. Moving on… Anyone who defines hisec mining as AFK is incorrect, you can actually say that hisec ice mining can be done AFK for a certain amount of time. I find the ore roids too small and they deplete rather quickly so AFK is not an accurate term to use, more like low attention game play. So get your terminology right and we might get somewhere. Eve to many people is an objective based game and that is what makes it fun. Does that help or do you want me to elaborate > [@Maekchu](#): > > Nvm, think I get it… > > You wrote “you” as in me. Not “you” as in them. Yes, you would unsubscribe if mining was something you had to do, and that is fine. > [@Maekchu](#): > > But how do you know that mining hasn’t resulted in loss of subs? If I find it boring, it’s possible that others do as well, right? Of course, I find it boring, but can hack it for objectives, others would not do it, some people totally enjoy it, people are different, but they are still Eve players. In nullsec out and out mad PvP players are Rorqual mining. Seriously they are because it is a means to an end. PS - Go away Shae ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/151 "2019-02-26T09:51:17Z")
What? How is _“What part of mining do you actually find compelling? The fact that it can be done afk?”_ a personal attack? It is a genuine question asking if you find the game mechanic enjoyable. Being an afk-able activity is something that many people state as a reason why highsec mining is a enjoyable activity. I’m asking, cause obviously I don’t understand why PvE activities in EvE has to be so darn boring. We both want a better game, right? If a full PvP sandbox is not what people want, but instead they want more PvE. Is it that bad asking for actual fun PvE activities? ---
**Author:** ![Browl\_Hochmeister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/browl_hochmeister/32/122185_2.png) [@Browl\_Hochmeister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Browl_Hochmeister)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/152 "2019-02-26T09:53:19Z")
My 1st alt joined Eve in April 2017. Highsec mining corp in an alliance soon followed with an emphasis on Pve (missions) exploration, mining, industry and PI. At any one time there could be 20 to 25 active players online. Our joint CEO’s were very experienced, had their own channels (twitch, radio etc) and were well connected with the community. The corp collapsed with the majority of active players leaving the game. The problem was 8 weeks of continuous wars from pretend PvP players who would happily destroy miners and transports but run in their Stratios from a fleet of 5 frigates. In our area of highsec we had PvP players–and they fought each other and any one else who was interested in PvP. But they were interested in the fighting part of PvP not a kill score of ISK based on non combat ships. Yes a procurer can carry combat drones–but it is not a PVP ship or a combat ship. Our CEO’s --with their connections–advised us that these well known trade route attackers were now targeting corps with the intent of driving people out of the game. That was their new measure of success. If they are the people who have left because of the wardec changes then good. ---
**Author:** ![Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shae_tadaruwa/32/138015_2.png) [@Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shae_Tadaruwa)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/153 "2019-02-26T09:54:43Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > But how do you know that mining hasn’t resulted in loss of subs? If I find it boring, it’s possible that others do as well, right? It does. CCP presented data on this in 2015. To quote CCP Quant: _…If you didn’t have your ship blown up and all you did is mining, you have a 98% chance of not playing the game by month four…_ ![Screenshot_20190226_205007](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/2/126f78d0ebfd7962c468e9e84e0833d8d426ee31.png) From an aggregate view of the player base, more players find mining terminal to their gameplay when they start the game, than those that enjoy it. That’s not to say there aren’t players that enjoy it and stick with the game as a result of mining, but they are the exception, not the rule. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/9/b/9b58f56e23e782e38e54b390edd8392104b34c46.jpeg "EVE Fanfest 2015: Data Science behind EVE") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-jfvjMoe9Y&t=965) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/154 "2019-02-26T09:55:27Z")
> [@Maekchu](#): > > What? How is “What part of mining do you actually find compelling? The fact that it can be done afk?” a personal attack? That is often used as a personal attack, if you are telling me that it was an innocent question rather than a statement about me being a dirty AFK bot aspirant or whatever then I will apologise. > [@Maekchu](#): > > It is a genuine question asking if you find the game mechanic enjoyable. Being an afk-able activity is something that many people state as a reason why highsec mining is a enjoyable activity. I’m asking, cause obviously I don’t understand why PvE activities in EvE has to be so darn boring. It is low attention and I am writing a book while doing it, that means I can do other things that are fun for me while doing it. I used to VNI rat doing the same thing, in fact that was actually less work. But it is a means to an end, objective based game play is what makes Eve more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Browl\_Hochmeister](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/browl_hochmeister/32/122185_2.png) [@Browl\_Hochmeister](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Browl_Hochmeister)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/155 "2019-02-26T10:00:34Z")
I think if people only do mining for the first 4 months then they would leave–but the game offers so much more–why are they not exploring , or Pve or industry or pvp etc etc. I personally enjoy mining, I have 3 alts that do it daily and I do not do afk. I do listen to music on youtube and read books. My mining supports my goal–making every gallente and ore ship. Maybe people need a goal? ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/156 "2019-02-26T10:03:05Z")
Note the ‘all you did’ part. Which means if you ever tried another activity like exploration, industry, invention, etc you are not part of that statistic. Also note that includes the guys who just logged in once, tried mining and never played again. Which seriously skews any stats. Basically, CCP used poor data and any results from those studies can’t be relied on. This also includes any in the anti pvp crowds favour, I’m not only saying this one way. ---
**Author:** ![Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shae_tadaruwa/32/138015_2.png) [@Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shae_Tadaruwa)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/157 "2019-02-26T10:03:47Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Which means if you ever tried another activity like exploration, industry, invention, etc you are not part of that statistic. Which wasn’t what was being discussed, so who cares. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/158 "2019-02-26T10:04:03Z")
That 3 month thing is a deflection that certain players use to troll. None of the people I knew who left the game were three months old, rather two, three and four year old characters. If you are doing objective based play and you are mining really slowly and inefficiently due to lack of SP and of course getting ganked so easily you would go sod this for a laugh. But they brought in injectors and of course improved the basic skills and improved the tank of mining ships. Ignore Shae. I am pretty much like you in terms of relaxing with it, but very soon I will be using the fruits of my mining all made by me to do something very risky in nullsec. Which is the next step of my objective. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/159 "2019-02-26T10:06:14Z")
Because you were trying to use it as a stat to say mining is boring. When you actually were only looking at a subset of players who mine, and the fact that if you ever took part in another activity means you are probably looking at a small subset, which would then be heavily influenced by the quit during hour 1 players data due to its size. Yes, that is a bit of conjecture as to how heavily influenced it is but it’s not conjecture to say that it’s a subset if people who mine and doesn’t prove mining is boring. ---
**Author:** ![Maekchu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maekchu/32/178692_2.png) [@Maekchu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maekchu)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/160 "2019-02-26T10:07:50Z")
I don’t care, even if you were a dirty AFK bot aspirant. I know arguing on these forums can be rather tiring sometimes. I often ask myself, why I even bother. In the end, I suppose our goal is to make a better game. You say mining is a low attention activity and that you enjoy that aspect. My original point when I replied to your sentence was, that not all people enjoy this and that there is a possibility that mining actually does lose subscribers. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad, if there existed other PvE activities that were not boring. I’ve been playing casually in highsec these past months, since I haven’t had that much time available to play eve. My honest opinion, is that most of the PvE stuff (especially what new players experience) is really not that engaging. I’m not even sure CCP reads these forums, but my recent posts has just been to try to explain that the PvE in this game (especially what new players experience) is really not up-to-par with other games and is very likely the main reason why player retention is low. No one, who is not already invested in eve somehow, is going to sit through months of boring PvE activities when learning the ropes of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shae_tadaruwa/32/138015_2.png) [@Shae\_Tadaruwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shae_Tadaruwa)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853/161 "2019-02-26T10:08:23Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That 3 month thing is a deflection that certain players use to troll. Up to your normal ■■■■■■■■ Drac. It’s CCP data and it’s what they use when making business decisions. They are interested in what pathways correlate with players leaving, not only by the end of the “onboarding period” (to use their term), but also old players, etc. It’s just data. The length of time isn’t really that important to us, only to CCP for their analysis purposes. What is presented though is pretty clear that more players demonstrate agreement with Maekchu, than those that don’t. Ignoring the information because it doesn’t agree with your own view doesn’t really make much difference. The conclusions are still the same regardless. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-summer-has-passed-but-eve-has-not-returned-to-40-000-concurent-users/141853.md?page=9)