# The wrong carrier nerf **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 14, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675 "2019-04-14T07:54:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mii\_Lady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mii_lady/32/380260_2.png) [@Mii\_Lady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mii_Lady)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 7:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/1 "2019-04-14T07:54:30Z")
The nerf to fighters ability to hit subcapitals was the wrong nerf. Carriers and supers should hit subs and hard, Its what they do. They screen a capital fleet from smaller ships getting to close. The right nerf was to seriously increase the refresh time of the MWD ability on fighters. Like triple it or even more. The issue with fighters in pvp was not that they hit sub capitals. It was that they way to effectively eliminated the advantage of maneuverability sub capitals had. I will conceded lowering the optimal range on heavy long range attack fighters was needed but the ability to track and hit small stuff was the wrong nerf. The ability for fighter swarms to get on top of a fleet and stay on top a fleet of sub capitals then escape being killed off if dragged away even to 200 or 300km was the main issue. Now we just have carriers with no real role to play. Instead of balancing their role you destroyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Alexander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/victor_alexander/32/125854_2.png) [@Victor\_Alexander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Victor_Alexander)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/2 "2019-04-14T08:00:45Z")
![violin](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/e/5/e5d2fd74749c422d905678cabc7d113d7cff29bb.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Mii\_Lady](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mii_lady/32/380260_2.png) [@Mii\_Lady](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mii_Lady)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/3 "2019-04-14T08:21:07Z")
Yes it’s very sad. It’s almost like nobody actually plays this game who comes up with this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/4 "2019-04-14T08:31:39Z")
A quite reasonable point of view and something I would agree with, I have used carriers but am now in hisec. It is really sad that they cannot remove tackle. I was going to use a carrier to do some risky logistics as a project, but the inability to strip tackle ended that plan. ---
**Author:** ![Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sepheir_sepheron/32/279597_2.png) [@Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sepheir_Sepheron)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/5 "2019-04-14T08:48:51Z")
Tell you what why don’t we make caps do ten billion dps with perfect application. Just keep them restricted to null you guys can have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/6 "2019-04-14T08:58:32Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > Carriers and supers should hit subs and hard, > Its what they do. Uhhhhhh … no. Supers hit supers. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/7 "2019-04-14T09:27:59Z")
im in full agreement, they really didnt need changing. The cyno mechanics yes, now that needs looking at. ---
**Author:** ![Rovinia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rovinia/32/483428_2.png) [@Rovinia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rovinia)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 10:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/8 "2019-04-14T10:06:55Z")
I liked the nerf, carrier groups where way to oppressive against subcapitals. And it’s not THAT bad, they still apply decent damage against most subcaps if you fit some application modules. I guess they nerfed the application and not the mobility (would also have been a good approach in terms of pvp) because they also wanted to reduce the efficency of carrier ratting. In general, i think carriers shouldn’t be the screen for the other capitals, the subcap fleet should be. At the moment, we have mostly a subcap vs subcap and capitals vs capitals gameplay. Would not hurt to shake that up even further. Also, carriers still have a nice and can do a lot of things other caps can’t: - Apply damage at extreme range - Utility for the cap fleet (Sirens etc.) - Profit from the remotereps of FAX’es - Are very mobile (for capital ships) and have a bigger “gtfo” factor because it doesn’t have to be sieged like dreads - Cheap pricing (yes, for some people thats a factor 😉 ) and relatively small skill requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/9 "2019-04-14T12:44:34Z")
> [@Mii\_Lady](#): > > Yes it’s very sad. It’s almost like nobody actually plays this game who comes up with this stuff. One of the defining moments for me that propelled my decision to stop playing the game in any serious capacity hence no longer subscribing was watching the presentation they did before the first round of major capital changes and 2 out of the 3 developers most closely involved in the changes couldn’t even get the basic terminology for capital features right and spent a lot of the time talking about things in a manner that no one like myself who’d spent several years at that point using capitals in wormholes and focussed low/nullsec PVP and some casual nullsec PVE use would even recognise as being a representation of how capitals were used in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/10 "2019-04-14T14:41:22Z")
> [@Rroff](#): > > One of the defining moments for me that propelled my decision to stop playing the game in any serious capacity hence no longer subscribing was watching the presentation they did before the first round of major capital changes and 2 out of the 3 developers most closely involved in the changes couldn’t even get the basic terminology for capital features right and spent a lot of the time talking about things in a manner that no one like myself who’d spent several years at that point using capitals in wormholes and focussed low/nullsec PVP and some casual nullsec PVE use would even recognise as being a representation of how capitals were used in the game. You do know . and , exist? ---
**Author:** ![Bank\_of\_Illumination](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bank_of_illumination/32/375939_2.png) [@Bank\_of\_Illumination](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bank_of_Illumination)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/11 "2019-04-14T14:42:02Z")
Yawns. ---
**Author:** ![Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sepheir_sepheron/32/279597_2.png) [@Sepheir\_Sepheron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sepheir_Sepheron)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/12 "2019-04-14T14:50:42Z")
You ever read such a long sentence that your jaw hurts as if you were talking too much ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/13 "2019-04-14T14:55:42Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > You do know . and , exist? If it concerns you that much I’m happy for you to reformat my sentence for the convenience of other posters. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Alexander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/victor_alexander/32/125854_2.png) [@Victor\_Alexander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Victor_Alexander)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/14 "2019-04-14T14:57:40Z")
> [@Rroff](#): > > One of the defining moments for me that propelled my decision to stop playing the game in any serious capacity hence no longer subscribing was watching the presentation they did before the first round of major capital changes and 2 out of the 3 developers most closely involved in the changes couldn’t even get the basic terminology for capital features right and spent a lot of the time talking about things in a manner that no one like myself who’d spent several years at that point using capitals in wormholes and focussed low/nullsec PVP and some casual nullsec PVE use would even recognise as being a representation of how capitals were used in the game. You used a lot of words but you said fck all. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/15 "2019-04-14T15:01:39Z")
> [@Victor\_Alexander](#): > > You used a lot of words but you said fck all. Dunno why you bothered even posting if you can’t manage something constructive in reply. ---
**Author:** ![Elena\_Laskova](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elena_laskova/32/11436_2.png) [@Elena\_Laskova](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elena_Laskova)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/16 "2019-04-14T15:02:06Z")
Rroff’s sentence could definitely do with some punctuation, or even conversion to a paragraph. But it makes perfect sense. Quite well-structured too (for a run-on sentence from &hotplace. anyway 🙂 Perhaps the eccentric format is an “idiot trap”? Or maybe he wrote it on a phone. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/17 "2019-04-14T15:03:01Z")
> [@Elena\_Laskova](#): > > Perhaps the eccentric format is an “idiot trap”? Or maybe he wrote it on a phone. More often than you might think for both though only one applied in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Victor\_Alexander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/victor_alexander/32/125854_2.png) [@Victor\_Alexander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Victor_Alexander)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/18 "2019-04-14T15:03:38Z")
You didn’t state anything to reply to, other than “CCP is clueless”. ---
**Author:** ![Rroff](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rroff/32/509119_2.png) [@Rroff](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rroff)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/19 "2019-04-14T15:08:27Z")
> [@Victor\_Alexander](#): > > You didn’t state anything to reply to, other than “CCP is clueless”. You could point out how CCP isn’t clueless in the context of capital changes. Though my post wasn’t intended to be as binary as that - as I mentioned 1 out of the 3 people I alluded to didn’t seem to be as inexperienced as the other 2. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675/20 "2019-04-14T15:08:32Z")
> [@Rroff](#): > > If it concerns you that much I’m happy for you to reformat my sentence for the convenience of other posters. Please do. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-wrong-carrier-nerf/152675.md?page=2)